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Old 04-27-2017, 10:26 PM   #201 (permalink)
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1800 to 2100 master cases?

NONONONONONO

This product will be seen on Black Friday sales, mark my words.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:30 PM   #202 (permalink)
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1800 to 2100 master cases?

NONONONONONO

This product will be seen on Black Friday sales, mark my words.
Yup. This has failure written all over it.

Anyone remember Marvel Annual recently? lol Biggest pile of crap I've ever seen in non-sports. Dr. Strange? Horrible.

UD has been mailing it in. Such a shame. Topps on the other hand has KILLED it with the Rogue One releases.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:31 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Topps on the other hand has KILLED it with the Rogue One releases.
Let's not go too crazy with the giving credit. Topps is bucking to steal the crown of King of watered down sets with 40th. We'll see proof in the pudding next week.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:34 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Let's not go too crazy with the giving credit. Topps is bucking to steal the crown of King of watered down sets with 40th. We'll see proof in the pudding next week.
Very true.

But Rogue One series 1 and 2 are very much a good start.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:43 PM   #205 (permalink)
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While I agree that this product appears to be rough, I do appreciate the transparency that has been recently provided.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:42 PM   #206 (permalink)
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True, but who sits at a UD meeting and says "This is what collectors want!"

Boggles the mind...
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:57 PM   #207 (permalink)
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I think it is a set that would definitely be bewildering for a master set collector to collect, but I think there is a lot of fun stuff here for a lot of different collectors if you simply narrow your focus to a few subsets that click for you.

PMGs were popular in Retro and should do well here. The Marvel Metal cards (which are essentially "base" PMGs) will do well here too, and I think they will be the most popular subset to collect on ePack due to the ePack-only pattern variant and the achievement card.

I love cut comic panel cards, and I think I will pick up quite a few of these.

If the coin cards are as nice as the Captain America ones (I wasn't a fan of the Dr. Strange coin card design), I will likely pick up quite a few of those as well.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:11 AM   #208 (permalink)
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If we deduce the product size using Preserved Amber, we get 1950 to 2925 inner cases. 30 cards with 195 (#/175 + #/15 + #/5) of each (5850 total cards) at two or three per inner case.

If we assume that there 5 to 6 PMGs per inner case, we get 3033 to 3640 inner cases (18,200 total PMGs).

The math doesn't work out exactly right, but these numbers look a little better than my initial deduction based on the Webbing cards (~4220 inner cases).

They're either over-promising on the Preserved Amber or under-promising on the PMGs. The odds just don't line up right.

I loved the artwork on MM16, but I wasn't a fan of the Gold Signature, Epic Purple and Legendary Orange subsets. The What If..., and Silver Auto and Red Spectrum would have been enough for the base parallels. I thought the holofoil parallels were tacky--like the cheap prism stickers I used to see in vending machines back in the '90s. I liked the canvas parallels and BS Gems, though.

But this set is just too much! Way too many subsets and way too many color PMGs. I'm still hopeful that the artwork is going to be good enough that putting a "mini-master" set would be worth it. But perhaps not at the current price.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:25 AM   #209 (permalink)
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Though more than a few people would consider this a good thing, I'm kinda surprised to not see Stan Lee's name anywhere on the list. True, he's gotten a bit diluted in the past, but (in my opinion) if there's one set he should be a part of it's surely this one.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:01 AM   #210 (permalink)
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1800 to 2100 master cases?

NONONONONONO

This product will be seen on Black Friday sales, mark my words.
I am not so sure on this. I suspect the majority of stock is in epack form and people will like the physical product and buy that up much earlier. I think I must be classed as old school now as I like things like the box art etc.
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Old 04-28-2017, 06:33 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Thanks for the transparency UD Matt.
This set seems like a lot of fun to open but steep on the price especially with very few sketch cards per release.
At least it seems like there are not tiers in the base set and it is all original art so that is a big Win.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:38 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Whilst disappointed at the sketch odds, which I feel are probably drawn out by the plans for a large epack run, I do really appreciate Upper Deck posting further information on here, so many thanks for this.

I'll be sticking with my inner case order and see how it goes. I'll post the break on here hopefully late next week. I am looking forward to the new art that looks excellent from what I have seen.

Last edited by richo; 04-28-2017 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:03 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'll post the breakdown for my inner case here as well. I hope others do too so we can get a gauge of "in the wild" odds.

I like parallels that actually add something to the artwork, like the MM16 What If..., rather than just different color borders or whatever. The Preserved Amber City Scape (#/15) and Full Color (#/5) might be some interesting pulls, since the base Preserved Amber cards are black and white.

It would have been great to see parallels of the actual base "naked" with absolutely no borders/labels and "outlined" in B&W before any paint is added. Make them SSP, like #/199 and #/99 or something worth chasing. That would be my biggest suggestion for the next Marvel Masterpieces release.

UpperDeckMatt, can you explain how the different "Forms" in the ePack achievements work? If I assume that 10 of one Form creates one of the next higher Form, then we need 10,000 copies of each base to get the highest achievement card? So someone aiming to acquire the highest achievement for all 100 base cards will need 1,000,000 cards? Good gawd, I hope my math is wrong.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:43 AM   #214 (permalink)
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This product is by far one of the largest releases we have done in a while. And we want it to be one of the best too.
ehhhhh, those two things don't coexist.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:23 AM   #215 (permalink)
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A couple of examples of Plexi Sketches can be found here.

https://orangethirteen.wordpress.com...-i-get-it-now/
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:51 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HiltonL View Post
1800 to 2100 master cases?

NONONONONONO

This product will be seen on Black Friday sales, mark my words.
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Originally Posted by jadams View Post
A couple of examples of Plexi Sketches can be found here.

https://orangethirteen.wordpress.com...-i-get-it-now/
Nice work, I like The Green Goblin one. I wonder how other artists have approached these? Have you seen any other samples?
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:10 AM   #217 (permalink)
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Kinda mad I preordered now. I like that they have the holoblast, but how about more retro chase cards from the spidey sets. Holograms and canvas would be better then ex century. And jambalaya? Why? I still don't get it. And the sketch artist list isn't promising. Two sketches per case? Be prepared to pull 2 slcrappy sketches. I opened mm16 and out of 12 sketches one could be considered pack worthy. Ugh. At least it's original art and spiderman. So the set will be nice. But the rest? Coin cards? Dumbest idea ever. Fake webbing? No thanks.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:20 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Half Vaped View Post
UpperDeckMatt, can you explain how the different "Forms" in the ePack achievements work? If I assume that 10 of one Form creates one of the next higher Form, then we need 10,000 copies of each base to get the highest achievement card? So someone aiming to acquire the highest achievement for all 100 base cards will need 1,000,000 cards? Good gawd, I hope my math is wrong.
A common challenge we have with base cards on the e-Pack side is the base cards are incredibly common. Many people are willing to collect them, but sometimes they don't have the value to warrant selling or transferring out. The achievements allow us to give value and use for those base cards. The math breakdown is more like this. 10 Copies of base = 1 silver, and 10 silver (100 base) = 1 rainbow. If someone wants to collect the full 100 card character rainbow set, that would warrant 10,000 standard base cards. Yes, it is a daunting task, but I have seen it done with some of the hockey sets as well. I will be the first person to admit that not everyone will do this, but people do have a favorite character that they chase, or in this case, possibly a favorite artist. Now someone who is a big fan of "Character X" can collect those cards with a little extra bonus.

For anyone who has expressed concerns over sketch cards, I hear and understand the concerns. Anyone who opened Marvel Masterpieces 2016 knows they fell inside every box. We didn't want to photocopy the breakdown of content into other products. Spider-Man has additional and new content that separates it. In addition, we were able to increase the quality of the art associated with Spider-Man. Granted that Art is subjective, but I was quite impressed with the artwork I saw as a whole.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:47 PM   #219 (permalink)
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A common challenge we have with base cards on the e-Pack side is the base cards are incredibly common. Many people are willing to collect them, but sometimes they don't have the value to warrant selling or transferring out. The achievements allow us to give value and use for those base cards. The math breakdown is more like this. 10 Copies of base = 1 silver, and 10 silver (100 base) = 1 rainbow. If someone wants to collect the full 100 card character rainbow set, that would warrant 10,000 standard base cards. Yes, it is a daunting task, but I have seen it done with some of the hockey sets as well. I will be the first person to admit that not everyone will do this, but people do have a favorite character that they chase, or in this case, possibly a favorite artist. Now someone who is a big fan of "Character X" can collect those cards with a little extra bonus.

For anyone who has expressed concerns over sketch cards, I hear and understand the concerns. Anyone who opened Marvel Masterpieces 2016 knows they fell inside every box. We didn't want to photocopy the breakdown of content into other products. Spider-Man has additional and new content that separates it. In addition, we were able to increase the quality of the art associated with Spider-Man. Granted that Art is subjective, but I was quite impressed with the artwork I saw as a whole.
Thanks for the explanation. I was confused and thought there were four tiers of achievements for the base cards, when there's really two tiers for base and another two tiers for the Web Foil version. Still a challenge, but a lot more realistic.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:50 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Kinda mad I preordered now. I like that they have the holoblast, but how about more retro chase cards from the spidey sets. Holograms and canvas would be better then ex century. And jambalaya? Why? I still don't get it. And the sketch artist list isn't promising. Two sketches per case? Be prepared to pull 2 slcrappy sketches. I opened mm16 and out of 12 sketches one could be considered pack worthy. Ugh. At least it's original art and spiderman. So the set will be nice. But the rest? Coin cards? Dumbest idea ever. Fake webbing? No thanks.
Yeah, I miss the holograms from the early '90s sets. I liked the old school style cards in Marvel Retro, but they could have left out the Jambalaya and EX Century cards in that set too. Doesn't make sense to me to include sports inserts in non-sports sets.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:00 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Yeah, I miss the holograms from the early '90s sets. I liked the old school style cards in Marvel Retro, but they could have left out the Jambalaya and EX Century cards in that set too. Doesn't make sense to me to include sports inserts in non-sports sets.
Actually it does make sense at least for jambalaya. That's an insert from sports world that also is popular in marvel. People love them and spend big money on them. It adds value to Spiderman so I don't see an issue.

Ex century looked like cartoon characters in previous retro. Hopefully they look better this time but my hopes aren't high. If it looks good it'll also have some value.

Agreed though that previous inserts sets from the 90s would be highly desirable. For example holofoil was great in MM16 and even looked better than the MM94 (I think that's the right year). So they took a classic insert and made it better.

Those old inserts attracted us at a young age and will once again as long as they are refined a bit for modern standards.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:06 PM   #222 (permalink)
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A common challenge we have with base cards on the e-Pack side is the base cards are incredibly common. Many people are willing to collect them, but sometimes they don't have the value to warrant selling or transferring out. The achievements allow us to give value and use for those base cards. The math breakdown is more like this. 10 Copies of base = 1 silver, and 10 silver (100 base) = 1 rainbow. If someone wants to collect the full 100 card character rainbow set, that would warrant 10,000 standard base cards. Yes, it is a daunting task, but I have seen it done with some of the hockey sets as well. I will be the first person to admit that not everyone will do this, but people do have a favorite character that they chase, or in this case, possibly a favorite artist. Now someone who is a big fan of "Character X" can collect those cards with a little extra bonus.

For anyone who has expressed concerns over sketch cards, I hear and understand the concerns. Anyone who opened Marvel Masterpieces 2016 knows they fell inside every box. We didn't want to photocopy the breakdown of content into other products. Spider-Man has additional and new content that separates it. In addition, we were able to increase the quality of the art associated with Spider-Man. Granted that Art is subjective, but I was quite impressed with the artwork I saw as a whole.
So what you're saying is that spiderman base cards on epack will be worth more than on the street because everyone is going to want to chase that rainbow!

I think we will see a few big ballers go for the whole set since all cards are redeemable. Epack sales should be very good.

I'm hopeful that they are nice. Low sketch count has worked in game of thrones and the hobbit because quality was so high. Hopefully that is the case here.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:40 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Kinda mad I preordered now. I like that they have the holoblast, but how about more retro chase cards from the spidey sets. Holograms and canvas would be better then ex century. And jambalaya? Why? I still don't get it. And the sketch artist list isn't promising. Two sketches per case? Be prepared to pull 2 slcrappy sketches. I opened mm16 and out of 12 sketches one could be considered pack worthy. Ugh. At least it's original art and spiderman. So the set will be nice. But the rest? Coin cards? Dumbest idea ever. Fake webbing? No thanks.
I agree that the hits, in general, are very disappointing. Sketch cards and comic panels, I totally get. Artist autographs are not typically super valuable, but I think they are a good fit and I think if they could put together a checklist encompassing a good percentage of the artists and writers on ASM over the last 50 years, that would be a cool set to build if done properly. Some retro comic inserts like holos, sure I'll take them.

Coin cards, manufactured webbing, retro sports inserts, foil parallels... none of these really do anything for me. Some people like them, so to each their own. I'm not a huge fan of the "Chrome" strategy where you manufacture value by manufacturing rarity where it is unnecessary. Fake hits. Bah...
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:42 PM   #224 (permalink)
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Actually it does make sense at least for jambalaya. That's an insert from sports world that also is popular in marvel. People love them and spend big money on them. It adds value to Spiderman so I don't see an issue.

Ex century looked like cartoon characters in previous retro. Hopefully they look better this time but my hopes aren't high. If it looks good it'll also have some value.

Agreed though that previous inserts sets from the 90s would be highly desirable. For example holofoil was great in MM16 and even looked better than the MM94 (I think that's the right year). So they took a classic insert and made it better.

Those old inserts attracted us at a young age and will once again as long as they are refined a bit for modern standards.
True, some people love the Jambalaya. For the EX Century Now and Then parallels, they have printing #s based on the card #. Would be interesting what the parallels add to the base EX Century.

Since you mentioned it, I just took a look at my MM94 and MM16 Holofoil collections. Sure, I might give MM16 a slight nod for the base Holofoils, but I'm not a fan of the Speckle (#/99) parallel and I hate the Kaleidoscope (#/25) versions even more. The rarest version looks like the bootleg Marvel prism stickers from vending machines when we were kids! I much prefer the silver, gold and bronze versions in MM94. I have the full bronze set and I think it gives the artwork a warmer character.
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:06 PM   #225 (permalink)
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True, some people love the Jambalaya. For the EX Century Now and Then parallels, they have printing #s based on the card #. Would be interesting what the parallels add to the base EX Century.

Since you mentioned it, I just took a look at my MM94 and MM16 Holofoil collections. Sure, I might give MM16 a slight nod for the base Holofoils, but I'm not a fan of the Speckle (#/99) parallel and I hate the Kaleidoscope (#/25) versions even more. The rarest version looks like the bootleg Marvel prism stickers from vending machines when we were kids! I much prefer the silver, gold and bronze versions in MM94. I have the full bronze set and I think it gives the artwork a warmer character.
I forgot about then and now EX. Youre right, those may bring in some serious value for some characters.

Agreed about the parallel MM16 holofoils. They were good as ways to recoup cash but I much preferred the base version. I don't fault UD for adding variations for value reasons though and it worked.
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