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Old 02-04-2017, 08:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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There is no doubt that a PSA 10 will probably sell for more than a raw card even in non-sports, the question is at how much of a premium. I think they are many non-sports collectors who would pay 10-25% more for a PSA 10, but there are far fewer who would pay 50% more. Paying 5x more? Almost noone would pay that much of a premium for a modern non-sports card.

To get a big premium on graded cards, that usually means one of two things. Either the card is being viewed as an investment, or the owner wants bragging rights for having the highest graded card. For 95% of non-sports collectors, neither of those two things apply. They just want a nice looking card for their collection or to complete a set, so as long as there aren't any obvious condition issues, most cards are acceptable to them. For non-sports collectors, bragging rights come from completing a set or having a really cool card or a really nice looking sketch card.

For sports cards and to an extent CCG cards, it makes sense that high graded cards are valued more. For example, for Ezekiel Elliot RC's, there are thousands of people who have them, so just owning one gives you very small bragging rights. Have a PSA 10, and then you move into a more exclusive group, with more bragging rights. Plus, a high percentage of people who own Ezekiel Elliot RC's view them as investments, and since gem mint cards are viewed as investment grade cards, there is a significant premium attached to them.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:13 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I agree with most opinions here in that I really don't look the grading as long as the card overall looks nice. I have a few rarer cards that has white showing or a dinged corner but if it does not detract from the autograph then I am actually fine with it in my PC. In fact I have purchased a George Clooney Batman card that actually have a crease through it but the signature still looks good and I was happy to pay a lot less for it.

When I scan through posts and ebay and I see the graded NS cards, I usually just skip through it since I know it would command a premium that I am just not looking to pay. But as someone mentioned, to some the GEM MINT is special to them.

All of mine are penny sleeved and in Ultrapro binders. I own a few graded cards and they sit in a box and I keep on contemplating cracking the case. Plus I wouldn't know where to put all of my PC if they were slabbed.

My Updated Auto Collection

Also I am the type that enjoys displaying my collection so most of my figures and statues are opened and in display cases since I rarely ever sell anything anyways.

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Old 02-05-2017, 08:35 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kerg View Post
I'd love to say there is some complex reason that I don't collect graded cards, but it just boils down to... I don't care.
This.

I'll usually buy a slightly off centered auto or possibly even a dinged corner, if it's going to save me a lot of money. I don't plan to resell, so what's it matter to me?

Pretty much every ns collector who collects graded cards has popped up in this thread. Total: 3. If they don't want your cards, OP, you are probably screwed.
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm going to come at this from a different angle. I think non-sport collectors are smart enough not to fall for the premium placed on graded cards.

Look at it this way. Many of us today expect a card to come out of a pack in Mint condition. In Baseball, 2015 Topps #615 is Kris Bryant's rookie card. To date, there have been 699 submissions of this card to PSA. 552 of these submissions have resulted in PSA 10's. Another 126 in PSA 9's.

So this means that almost 80% of the submissions result in PSA 10's. Yes, people are only going to submit the sharpest looking cards, but how rare is a PSA 10? When expectations are that a card will come out of a pack today and grade at minimum a PSA 9, jumping up to a PSA 10 is no big deal. Technology today, in producing cards, is far superior to the technology back in the day. I started busting cards back in 1975. Right out of the pack, you could expect mis-cut cards, bubble gum stains, print spots on cards, etc. Do we expect that today when we bust our packs? Do we get that?

Point is, a graded PSA 10 really does nothing for me and many others with today's cards. We expect a high grade condition card to come out of the pack, and we usually get it. And as with Kris Bryant's example, 80% of his cards are getting PSA 10's. So why pay a premium for them? Especially the premium we see for older cards.

I personally don't care about graded non-sports. I already am getting a very nice looking card out of the pack. When I see, for example, a Lena Headley GOT auto, I'll pick up the non-graded card all day long before I'll pay a premium for the graded. Why? Because in most cases, that non-graded auto looks just as nice and sharp as the graded, for a fraction of the cost!

But really, how rare are PSA 10's in 2017? No where near as rare as they were in 1997.

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Old 02-05-2017, 10:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I've had a few cards graded over the years just because they're high value & I want them to be preserved in mint condition. (Like the Atwell/Smulders dual from CA:WS that came back as a PSA 10)
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:04 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Its sounds like good advice on selling PSA10s is to be patient especially if you are expecting to get a premium on the price. Since a good number of the non sports card collectors don't really care about card condition (well to a degree anyway), you'll have to be patient to find the right sucker, I mean buyer, to pay a premium for the grade.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jjsmallvillelvr View Post
This.

I'll usually buy a slightly off centered auto or possibly even a dinged corner, if it's going to save me a lot of money. I don't plan to resell, so what's it matter to me?

Pretty much every ns collector who collects graded cards has popped up in this thread. Total: 3. If they don't want your cards, OP, you are probably screwed.
Are you suggesting every non-sport trading card collector is a member of this forum?
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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One thing to consider is not how the card looks today out of the pack but how it's going to look in 20, 30 or even 50 years. I'll take my BGS 9.5 w/ 10 auto over any raw that could be dropped, bent, left in a moisture riddled place, kids accidently got ahold of, pet got ahold of, counterfeited any day Yes we take better care of cards today than we did 20 years ago but accidents still happen.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I'd love to say there is some complex reason that I don't collect graded cards, but it just boils down to... I don't care.
I agree with Kerg, except I add the following:
The older the card is, the more likely I am to appreciate grading. Those old cards are printed on fragile/condition sensitive stock in most cases and I am more likely to care about having a third-party rating/slab for such cards than for modern (last 20 years) cards.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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non sports are different from all the other things being graded. The shows that get card sets aren't usually all about the $$. My two favorites are parks and Recreation and Psych. I paid a little over a hundred bucks for an Amy Poehler #'d to 25 red foil autograph, which was the most from a master set, variants included. I actually broke some near perfect parks and recreation autographs out of the bgs holder so they would all match.There are exceptions in non sports too.

Star Wars and Marvel are routinely collected and traded like sports cards.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:17 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Are you suggesting every non-sport trading card collector is a member of this forum?
Of course...

As for people worrying about 'accidents'. Of course those happen. If you have grimey kids (they are all grimey), then yes you may want extra protection. But most peoples set ups are enough for an adult household. If you are drinking coffee next to your cards and spill that's your fault. But if your house is on fire, a bgs case probably will just melt to your card like a toploader. So it all really just depends. If you are slabbing them to sell in 30 years then maybe it will pay off, but probably not right now.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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People will pay for high grade cards. Unfortunately, the autographs on these cards are poor and since PSA doesn't grade the autograph, you lose a large section of people who DO like graded cards.

If these were BGS 9.5 with 10 autographs I'd definitely be a 'buyer'.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:45 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jjsmallvillelvr View Post
This.

I'll usually buy a slightly off centered auto or possibly even a dinged corner, if it's going to save me a lot of money. I don't plan to resell, so what's it matter to me?

Pretty much every ns collector who collects graded cards has popped up in this thread. Total: 3. If they don't want your cards, OP, you are probably screwed.
Disclaimer: I BGS grade the most valuable and best looking of my non-sports cards.

I think you're wrong. And I think as time goes on, you'll become even more wrong. Go look at sales of 1977 topps star wars series 1 on ebay (you can buy several sets of raw cards for the price of one PSA 8). Extrapolate to 30 years from now.

Aside from just the ensured pristine condition, imagine a future fraught with fakes -- surely an encapsulated card (marked as authentic prior to fakes appearing on the market) has a much higher chance of being genuine when sold on a large online marketplace.

Just because the market isn't there now doesn't mean that they won't fetch a premium downstream.

It's basically a gamble. If someone had encapsulated their 1952 topps cards back in 1952, they would have been a genius. If someone had encapsulated their 1991 topps cards back in 1991 they would have been a moron. If you think downstream demand will entail a market for your pristine card, grading it now makes sense. If you think it's so mass produced that it's worthless in the future, don't grade it now no matter how nice it is. I have been buying PSA 10 Puckett base from the 90s for under $10. Which seems crazy to me.

I will continue to grade my cards (you can look at my posts in smackvay's thread if you don't believe I'm putting my money where my mouth is). If nobody wants to buy it now, I'm fine with that as I predict the demand for star wars autographs will only go up.

Card production quality has gone up so a general rule of thumb is BGS for anything in the past thirty years and PSA for everything prior. And that puts your cards in a curious place ...

In regards to your cards:
I'll refrain from commenting on the political card but to be blunt it's worth less than $0 to me.

I don't collect soft signed cards.

Your clipped sticker autos are a BGS 9 auto at best. The Trump card has streaking which may make it a BGS 9 auto as well.

I believe they're all still actively signing autographs (which makes me hesitant because some company could release a several thousand auto run for any of them and ruin the market).

My advice to the OP is that if you need to move them, put them at a BIN above what you're looking for and allow best offers. Then try to meet them right around what you're looking for.

If it helps: smackvay (BGS) and shabagel (PSA) are the two group break hosts I use for pretty regularly submitting cards.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Cards I got back:
Trump - has a pop of 4, one sold on eBay with an accepted best offer, was listed for $11,000. That can't be anywhere near a real number, right?


No idea if it was actually paid for...etc...etc...

But that $11k one you are referring to sold for $6000 !
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:04 PM   #40 (permalink)
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No idea if it was actually paid for...etc...etc...

But that $11k one you are referring to sold for $6000 !
It has been put back up for $11k by the same seller. Completed auction. New auction. Same card, could be an attempt to inflate price.

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Originally Posted by chilly55 View Post
I'm going to come at this from a different angle. I think non-sport collectors are smart enough not to fall for the premium placed on graded cards.

Look at it this way. Many of us today expect a card to come out of a pack in Mint condition. In Baseball, 2015 Topps #615 is Kris Bryant's rookie card. To date, there have been 699 submissions of this card to PSA. 552 of these submissions have resulted in PSA 10's. Another 126 in PSA 9's.
And each of those PSA 10s is worth about $40. Since it's a modern card, more importantly, a BGS 9.5 is easily $30 and a BGS 10 is $60+.

Quote:
So this means that almost 80% of the submissions result in PSA 10's. Yes, people are only going to submit the sharpest looking cards, but how rare is a PSA 10? When expectations are that a card will come out of a pack today and grade at minimum a PSA 9, jumping up to a PSA 10 is no big deal. Technology today, in producing cards, is far superior to the technology back in the day. I started busting cards back in 1975. Right out of the pack, you could expect mis-cut cards, bubble gum stains, print spots on cards, etc. Do we expect that today when we bust our packs? Do we get that?

Point is, a graded PSA 10 really does nothing for me and many others with today's cards. We expect a high grade condition card to come out of the pack, and we usually get it. And as with Kris Bryant's example, 80% of his cards are getting PSA 10's. So why pay a premium for them? Especially the premium we see for older cards.

I personally don't care about graded non-sports. I already am getting a very nice looking card out of the pack. When I see, for example, a Lena Headley GOT auto, I'll pick up the non-graded card all day long before I'll pay a premium for the graded. Why? Because in most cases, that non-graded auto looks just as nice and sharp as the graded, for a fraction of the cost!

But really, how rare are PSA 10's in 2017? No where near as rare as they were in 1997.
Which is why most cards before 2000 are submitted to PSA and most cards submitted after 2000 are submitted to BGS. Production quality went up and there's a higher scale to address that.

The centering on modern cards isn't as great as you claim it is. I just went through my masterworks with an omnigrid and some cards were just permanently off center. But judging by the sentiment in this thread, I'm the only person that would care about that, right?

I'll let you in on a secret. Two years ago I bought two Carrie Fisher gold autos from High Tek for $210 each. I sent them into BGS for $10 each and they both came back 9.5/10. So I put one on ebay for $300 and it sold instantly. If it grades right and is BGS, the market is there.

By the way, would you care to comment on, say, Cryptozoic's hard signed autographs and their condition as they come out of packs? I would be interested to hear your experiences there ...
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:13 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I think some people like the fact that BGS grades the autograph, but I also think people love the fact the BGG hands out 9.5s like crazy. It's almost impossible to get a modern card graded by them below a 9 unless it has some flaw that would probably make it a 7 if sent to PSA. Just my opinion of course, but I feel PSA is far more strict in their grading. And now that PSA does grade the autograph itself for an extra fee, a PSA 10 with a 10 autograph would far outsell a BGS 9.5/10.

I like autograph grading when it has a legitimate flaw (like smearing, smudging, etc.). But when the ink is a little bit streaky or the very tip of the signature goes off the card, I find it absurd to lower the autograph grade from a 10 to a 9, thus lowering the card's value and making the signature appear more "flawed" than it is (or that I think it is). I got into an interesting debate with someone from Beckett via e-mail over this years ago. But I suppose there's no middle ground. Either you grade the signature completely or you don't.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:36 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I think some people like the fact that BGS grades the autograph, but I also think people love the fact the BGG hands out 9.5s like crazy. It's almost impossible to get a modern card graded by them below a 9 unless it has some flaw that would probably make it a 7 if sent to PSA. Just my opinion of course
Here ya go.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:52 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I think some people like the fact that BGS grades the autograph, but I also think people love the fact the BGG hands out 9.5s like crazy. It's almost impossible to get a modern card graded by them below a 9 unless it has some flaw that would probably make it a 7 if sent to PSA.
I would like to know what you're basing this off of? Are you basing this off the number of 9.5's you see for sale or are you basing this off your personal submissions?

I'm going to guess that you're going off the number of 9.5s you see. Cuz if you graded you would know this is so false its not even funny. Its like looking at the box break section and saying all boxes have major hits in them.

I grade constantly and I can tell you for fact BGS does not hand out 9.5's like candy and I can tell you PSA is not any stricter. It takes me about 100 cards to find 31 9.5 candidates. And of those 31 candidates, 18-23 come back 9.5s and every now and then a couple come back 8.5s or lower and those 9.5s are what you see. What you dont see is the other 29 cards that didnt make the cut or the 9s and below. I will almost bet that if you bought a case of cards with 12 boxes per case and 4 hits per box (48 hits) and you sent every one of them in to be graded you'd be lucky to get half back 9.5-9. As for PSA being stricter - I've crossed BGS 9s over to PSA 10s and I've had PSA 10s come back BGS 9s. It goes both ways really. Grading is subjective and a persons opinion, every person has a different opinion.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:27 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I would like to know what you're basing this off of? Are you basing this off the number of 9.5's you see for sale or are you basing this off your personal submissions?

I'm going to guess that you're going off the number of 9.5s you see. Cuz if you graded you would know this is so false its not even funny. Its like looking at the box break section and saying all boxes have major hits in them.

I grade constantly and I can tell you for fact BGS does not hand out 9.5's like candy and I can tell you PSA is not any stricter.
I've submitted to both companies quite a few times over the years and got far more BGS 9.5s than PSA 10s. To me there's a reason why most flippers turn to BGS for their grading and there's a reason why PSA 10s sell for more money. If you don't think PSA is more strict than BGS, that's you're opinion and that's fine. But I do. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:11 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I've submitted to both companies quite a few times over the years and got far more BGS 9.5s than PSA 10s. To me there's a reason why most flippers turn to BGS for their grading and there's a reason why PSA 10s sell for more money. If you don't think PSA is more strict than BGS, that's you're opinion and that's fine. But I do. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Uh why not compare PSA 10s to BGS 10s if you're going to say who grades more strictly than the other?

I am 100% in disagreement with your statement.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:58 AM   #46 (permalink)
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^^^psa grades much more strictly. Ultra high dollar vintage baseball are NEVER graded by bgs for a reason. I don't collect much sports and am not into grading, but what Steviev said is common knowledge. And the parks and recs I broke out were bgs 9.5's I think lol.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:04 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I think it's crazy how upset and offended people get about non sports stuff being graded.

I for one absolutely love graded non sports stuff!! sick stuff OP

I have a couple POP 1 (i believe they still are)


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Old 02-16-2017, 06:12 AM   #48 (permalink)
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^^^psa grades much more strictly. Ultra high dollar vintage baseball are NEVER graded by bgs for a reason.
Yeah the reason is because they're VINTAGE and the production quality was much lower back then so it demands more finess on the bottom end of the scale. Modern cards have higher production quality so they need a higher ceiling on the scale. Do me a favor and go to ebay and look up Kris Bryant's rookie card -- all day the BGS 10s will sell for almost twice as much as the PSA 10s. And the population reports reflect that!

BGS: 69 of 436 cards graded are 10s
PSA: 574 of 732 cards graded are 10s

Absurd that you think PSA grades more harshly than BGS! If you really believe that, go buy PSA 10 Bryant RCs, crack them out and send them into BGS for the better grade. You could be making tons of money if you believe it works like that. I've used both services extensively, I know how both perform!

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I don't collect much sports and am not into grading, but what Steviev said is common knowledge. And the parks and recs I broke out were bgs 9.5's I think lol.
Parks and Rec were press pass and some of those graded 9.5 for me, have you tried grading any Cryptozoic releases through BGS?
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:00 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I personally use PSA exclusively for the simple fact that I think it is ridiculous to pay extra to grade the autograph. I can see the autograph myself. You can believe that I will not be buying any faded, smudged, cut off, run-off signature. etc. I don't need someone to tell me the signature is crap.
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Old 02-16-2017, 07:04 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dukestr89 View Post
I personally use PSA exclusively for the simple fact that I think it is ridiculous to pay extra to grade the autograph. I can see the autograph myself. You can believe that I will not be buying any faded, smudged, cut off, run-off signature. etc. I don't need someone to tell me the signature is crap.
You can see that the card itself is not faded, smudged, cut off or offcenter -- you don't need someone to tell you the card is crap. Why pay to grade the card like a chump?
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