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Old 02-14-2017, 07:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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the omg moment in 8 wont be
whos your daddy but whos your mamma
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yeah, I totally disagree with you on those. By the logic in 1 and 2, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrorism. By your Smith's argument, any bombing raid on a German factory city during WWII would also be terrorism.

State actors who consider themselves at large-scale war striking strategic points isn't terrorism. The key difference with 1 & 2 and terrorism is the enemy had a known base. If North Korea nuked South Korea, that's not terrorism. We know where to hit them.

Please do not use this word lightly.
So 5 "friendly" planets that want peace in the galaxy have been blown up in Star Wars by the Sith and First Order, for the reason which is very much tied to the formal definition that you quoted, with the loss of billions of innocent lives, and it is not terrorism? OK.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:02 AM   #28 (permalink)
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well lets go back to to luke and leia kissing and not knowing they were siblings....
Totally different. They were separated on Day 1 of birth and neither was really all knowing in Jedi powers yet. A mother knows her Son or Daughter. It is a gift.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Snoke will end up being Vader's Dad and Rey's father which will make her Luke's Auntie Rey and Snoke Luke's Grandfather.

Then they can slather memberberry jam on the phrase, "Rey.. I am your father..."

And the internet will meltdown...
I thought Anakin was an immaculate conception created by the midichlorins. There was no Father. This was in Episode I.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:06 AM   #30 (permalink)
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If it's one thing Disney loves for sure, it's making money, and there's nothing that's going to make more money than selling Rey Skywalker merchandise forever. While Rey Kenobi will make some nice change, Rey Skywalker is the clear choice to rake in the big bucks. It wouldn't be the first time that marketing would directly influence key decisions with the Star Wars story. Perhaps the reveal of Rey being Luke's daughter wont be much of a surprise, but the interactions and reasons of why things happened a certain way will be. They can easily get around the "why was Rey left by Luke in Jakku?" question by having Luke unknowingly getting the mother pregnant while on a Jedi adventure. Perhaps the mother did not want or was not able to let Luke know for whatever reason, then meets another man, Rey would just assume this other man is her dad. The bigger reveal could be who the mom is, and sequence of events that left Rey in Jakku. Disney could surprise us, but I just don't see them taking the financial hit in not being able to forever milk Rey Skywalker merchandise.
Unless Disney is just going to do there own thing in the Star Wars Universe and change things from the originals like the did with the Rogue One ending, I just can't see Luke or Obi Wan fathering a child. They both know what happened to Anakin when he fell in love. It makes no sense that they would risk the same thing.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:19 AM   #31 (permalink)
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So 5 "friendly" planets that want peace in the galaxy have been blown up in Star Wars by the Sith and First Order, for the reason which is very much tied to the formal definition that you quoted, with the loss of billions of innocent lives, and it is not terrorism? OK.
I have to agree with eldavojohn on this one. We only have Princess Leia's word that Alderaan was "peaceful." If you think about it, it was one of the birth places of the rebellion. Their Government leaders had been resisting the Empire and Sith beginning with Episode III (helping Yoda escape, hiding the last of the Jedi, etc.). I would say that makes them a military target to the Empire.

The Republic planets the First Order blew up were military targets as well. The Republic Fleet was stationed there (as discussed by Leia) and the head of the opposition Government was there, so that made them military targets as well.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:23 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I thought Anakin was an immaculate conception created by the midichlorins. There was no Father. This was in Episode I.
I refuse to believe anything from Episode I.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
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You misunderstood my 1st and 2nd sentences from my last response. Kerg was talking about Disney’s overall image. Then I brought up the MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe), which is also under Disney’s umbrella to bring up issues Disney has already dealt with. The 2nd sentence was also tied to the MCU, which is why it ends with me referencing Black Widow (a Marvel character). 3rd sentence I go back into Star Wars. If the MCU doesn’t deal with the theme of terrorism then I don’t know what does. Going back to Iron Man I, it was Tony Stark’s realization that all his creations were getting into the hands of terrorists, and all the blood on his hands he was indirectly tied to, which began his “redemption arc” into Iron Man. The action/reaction of what terrorism does to the world has continued to be pointed out periodically since then in the MCU and even in the TV series Agents of Shield (I don’t watch the other Marvel TV shows, so I don’t know about others).
Yeah it wasn't clear on what you were talking about. Look, Disney owns over 10% of Vice Media that has "journalism" and "media" that I'm not going to link to on here (Vice's guide to travel, or just go read their current headlines on their site). That doesn't mean that Star Wars should be blown open to the world of cutters in Denmark. Star Wars: more risky than the Mickey Mouse show. Marvel: a little more risky than Star Wars. Vice: much more risky. Disney is a huge company and I'm sure they treat their brands and holdings differently. I wouldn't point at the Marvel Universe and say "Might as well be a race war on Kashyyyk now."
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:30 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I have to agree with eldavojohn on this one. We only have Princess Leia's word that Alderaan was "peaceful." If you think about it, it was one of the birth places of the rebellion. Their Government leaders had been resisting the Empire and Sith beginning with Episode III (helping Yoda escape, hiding the last of the Jedi, etc.). I would say that makes them a military target to the Empire.

The Republic planets the First Order blew up were military targets as well. The Republic Fleet was stationed there (as discussed by Leia) and the head of the opposition Government was there, so that made them military targets as well.
If you want to argue that what the Sith and First Order did was not terrorism according to eldavojohn's special definition, then fine. eldavojohn posted the formal definition though:

"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

It doesn't say ONLY against civilians, it says especially against civilians, which means it's a stronger act of terrorism, but is not limited to that. It also doesn't even mention if the civilians need to be defined as "good" or "bad." Was blowing up planets unlawful? Yes. Was it a form of intimidation being used by the Sith and First Order? Yes. Sure they took out military bases, but did it include a heck ton of civilian casualties? Yes. Was it done in the pursuit of the political gains the Sith and First Order were trying to make? Yes, they don't know that they are the bad guys, they think the ideology of the rebellion/resistance is wrong.

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess. To get the thread back on track, my main point is somehow, someway, the biggest bucks by far are on Rey Skywalker. So any theory that ends up with Rey Skywalker is something I can get behind, I gave an example of one way it could happen, but it's not limited to that. I like watching the Star Wars movies, but I'm not invested in Star Wars at all (money wise). It doesn't really matter to me if she ends up being Rey Palpatine or Rey Snoke, but everybody here that is invested in Star Wars, especially Rey auto's/cards, should be rooting like heck for a Rey Skywalker result. If there's a dark horse winner like Rey Palpatine, those toys and those auto's and those cards aren't selling nearly as well as Rey Skywalker. Not saying they plummet in value, just saying if Rey Skywalker would sell for X, and Rey anything else would sell for Y, X will always be bigger than Y. Kylo or Ben Solo is Skywalker by blood, but is carrying the Solo name, not Skywalker, and for the Skywalker name to not be carried on by someone is crazy, Disney would be leaving money on the table. Props to them if they do that with a twist out of left field.

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Old 02-15-2017, 01:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I don't know if Ren has ever been identified as being a Solo or an Organa - I saw a theory that he would have been Organa since Alderaan was a matriarchal society and therefore it would have been Leia's name, not Han's, that he would have taken.

Either way ... I think there's a twist that no-one has yet predicted. Maybe not one that'll blow us away, but nothing that was in any way expected. And the main thing for Disney is, the more they can fuel the speculation, the more the franchise is on everyone's minds, the more viral marketing they get . I always wonder who starts all these theories, and if some are planted by Disney to create traffic in the first place.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Emperor Jar Jar Binkwalker.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Emperor Jar Jar Binkwalker.
AKA Jaxxon's father!
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:48 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mtedenajimenez View Post
If you want to argue that what the Sith and First Order did was not terrorism according to eldavojohn's special definition, then fine. eldavojohn posted the formal definition though:

"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

It doesn't say ONLY against civilians, it says especially against civilians, which means it's a stronger act of terrorism, but is not limited to that. It also doesn't even mention if the civilians need to be defined as "good" or "bad." Was blowing up planets unlawful? Yes. Was it a form of intimidation being used by the Sith and First Order? Yes. Sure they took out military bases, but did it include a heck ton of civilian casualties? Yes. Was it done in the pursuit of the political gains the Sith and First Order were trying to make? Yes, they don't know that they are the bad guys, they think the ideology of the rebellion/resistance is wrong.

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess. To get the thread back on track, my main point is somehow, someway, the biggest bucks by far are on Rey Skywalker. So any theory that ends up with Rey Skywalker is something I can get behind, I gave an example of one way it could happen, but it's not limited to that. I like watching the Star Wars movies, but I'm not invested in Star Wars at all (money wise). It doesn't really matter to me if she ends up being Rey Palpatine or Rey Snoke, but everybody here that is invested in Star Wars, especially Rey auto's/cards, should be rooting like heck for a Rey Skywalker result. If there's a dark horse winner like Rey Palpatine, those toys and those auto's and those cards aren't selling nearly as well as Rey Skywalker. Not saying they plummet in value, just saying if Rey Skywalker would sell for X, and Rey anything else would sell for Y, X will always be bigger than Y. Kylo or Ben Solo is Skywalker by blood, but is carrying the Solo name, not Skywalker, and for the Skywalker name to not be carried on by someone is crazy, Disney would be leaving money on the table. Props to them if they do that with a twist out of left field.
As a lawyer (believe me or don't, I don't give a flip) that was a wonderfully argued statement. Kudos!
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:31 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mtedenajimenez View Post
If you want to argue that what the Sith and First Order did was not terrorism according to eldavojohn's special definition, then fine. eldavojohn posted the formal definition though:

"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

It doesn't say ONLY against civilians, it says especially against civilians, which means it's a stronger act of terrorism, but is not limited to that. It also doesn't even mention if the civilians need to be defined as "good" or "bad." Was blowing up planets unlawful? Yes. Was it a form of intimidation being used by the Sith and First Order? Yes. Sure they took out military bases, but did it include a heck ton of civilian casualties? Yes. Was it done in the pursuit of the political gains the Sith and First Order were trying to make? Yes, they don't know that they are the bad guys, they think the ideology of the rebellion/resistance is wrong.

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess. To get the thread back on track, my main point is somehow, someway, the biggest bucks by far are on Rey Skywalker. So any theory that ends up with Rey Skywalker is something I can get behind, I gave an example of one way it could happen, but it's not limited to that. I like watching the Star Wars movies, but I'm not invested in Star Wars at all (money wise). It doesn't really matter to me if she ends up being Rey Palpatine or Rey Snoke, but everybody here that is invested in Star Wars, especially Rey auto's/cards, should be rooting like heck for a Rey Skywalker result. If there's a dark horse winner like Rey Palpatine, those toys and those auto's and those cards aren't selling nearly as well as Rey Skywalker. Not saying they plummet in value, just saying if Rey Skywalker would sell for X, and Rey anything else would sell for Y, X will always be bigger than Y. Kylo or Ben Solo is Skywalker by blood, but is carrying the Solo name, not Skywalker, and for the Skywalker name to not be carried on by someone is crazy, Disney would be leaving money on the table. Props to them if they do that with a twist out of left field.
Then as was pointed out earlier, you must believe the United States and Great Britain were terrorists when we bombed whole German cities and killed tons of civilians with no real military targets being there. Or the United States is a terrorist for dropping two atomic bombs on cities in Japan and killing thousands of civilians. I don't see it that way.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:15 AM   #40 (permalink)
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As a lawyer (believe me or don't, I don't give a flip) that was a wonderfully argued statement. Kudos!
Because someone used a dictionary definition despite the legal context in which they were using the word?

If you think that is a sound argument that Star Wars addresses a controversial concept today like terrorism, best of luck with your practice!
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:41 AM   #41 (permalink)
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It's hard to think of her as Luke's daughter since, again, Leia or Han would've said something, if she is and they didn't then that just makes Ep 7 worse. I really would love her to be Luke and Mara's kid though, but again he's a Jedi, so why couldn't he have stayed with her and trained her or at least kept an eye on her like Obi-Wan did.

I also hope it's not the Vader reincarnation theory I read, I'm fine with force ghosts but not being reborn as someone new.

I also don't think Snoke is someone we've seen yet, unless Snoke is a taken name like Vader was. People have thought he's Darth Plageuis, which could be since Couth Dooku was Darth Tyrannus, but again, highly unlikely since the emperor claimed to have killed him in his sleep. I doubt he'd have let all the events of movies 3-6 play out and be in the background.

The one thing debunking Rey as a Skywalker would be the fact George Lucas said he was unhappy baout Star Wars not staying a "family saga", implying they're moving away from teh Skywalker lineage.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:44 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Did you see Rey's hair? Clearly she's the offspring of Chewbacca and R2-D2
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:51 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Is there a chance that she is somehow Vader's Offspring? I could see that fuelling the dynamic between her and Kylo even more.

I know timing doesn't add up, but there could be some sort of twist involved with how
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:16 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Is there a chance that she is somehow Vader's Offspring? I could see that fuelling the dynamic between her and Kylo even more.

I know timing doesn't add up, but there could be some sort of twist involved with how
Vader could have knocked up Aphra with the force and midichlorians
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:31 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Jaysabz, cheers!

fulltritty, everyone loses when conflicts get to the point of needing a world war to decide things. Everyone involved in wars, especially with innocent civilian casualties, has dirt on their hands. The US had to get some dirt on their hands in order to stop something that was much dirtier, that's understood, but it would be naive to think the US (or anyone else) has walked away from world wars squeaky clean.

eldavojohn, there's a difference between something being addressed, and something just simply happening. In Marvel movies it's addressed and actually changes characters. In Star Wars it simply happens and is not addressed, the plot just moves on, but the act is shown on screen. I never said it was addressed in Star Wars, I wasn't even talking about Star Wars in the first place. Once it got to Star Wars, I did make the point that the act happened.
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Am I the only one that actually thinks 7-9 are still going to focus around Luke? These movies have always been about the Skywalker family to some capacity. I can't help but think Rey, Finn, Poe, etc are all surrounding characters helping to tell a story of Luke's redemption. Going by what the Force Awakens tells us, Luke basically messed up his teachings miserably and sought asylum from his mistakes. The fate of the universe is essentially in Luke's hands. I have no doubt Rey will play a large role in this new trilogy, but I'm still going with my gut and saying this is a story of Luke's redemption.
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:22 PM   #47 (permalink)
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One more main flaw with the theory that she's a Skywalker at all is the fact that she has a British accent in the movie. John Boyega is British as well, but was forced to hide his accent for the role of Finn. Obviously we all know neither Luke nor Leia had a British accent.
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:51 PM   #48 (permalink)
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One more main flaw with the theory that she's a Skywalker at all is the fact that she has a British accent in the movie. John Boyega is British as well, but was forced to hide his accent for the role of Finn. Obviously we all know neither Luke nor Leia had a British accent.
So you're saying she's a Kenobi?

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Old 02-17-2017, 06:06 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I would definitely bet on that before I bet on her being a Skywalker. Her being related to Luke would be so obvious. The look that Luke gives her at the end of the film seems to be a look of bewilderment. Luke is obviously very strong in the force, so maybe he realizes her presence is that of a Kenobi.
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Old 02-17-2017, 06:38 PM   #50 (permalink)
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One more main flaw with the theory that she's a Skywalker at all is the fact that she has a British accent in the movie. John Boyega is British as well, but was forced to hide his accent for the role of Finn. Obviously we all know neither Luke nor Leia had a British accent.
The accent could be more about her upbringing that her parentage.
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