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Old 09-15-2009, 08:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Beware of Ink Vault by Razor

I bought 2 boxes and pulled 2 Redemptions. 1 is for a Alyssa Milano autograph out of charmed and is worth $250.00. So I emailed Razor and this was the email conversation so far.

First Email to Razor.
Hello, I purchased 2 boxes of this product and received an exchange in a box of Charmed for a Milano Auto. Are you honoring these in any way?

Reply from BG at Razor
We do not handle any redemptions on behlaf of Inkworks.

My reply to that response:
Thanks, you made my mind up that I will never purchase another Product from RAZOR brands. Upper Deck honored some Fleer redemptions when they first bought them, by at least sending something to the collector even though it didnt match the redemption.

Reply back from BG at Razor
They bought fleer, we didnít buy inkworks.
How would we know if you pulled a redemption rather than just had an old one?

My reply
You didnít buy Inkworks? Then how come you have all there products? The word around the hobby is the Razor bought out the failing Inkworks. I even read it on some major sport sites, including Tuffstuff.com, Beckett.com, and a few others.

I bought 2 boxes of Ink Vault, why else would I buy a box of Charmed. I can scan the 6 uncirculated Autographs I pulled from the 2 vault boxes. Its no big deal, but somewhere on your product, you should have put that some products have redemptions and that you will not honor them, as the company Fairfield does.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Razor has no obligation to redeem expired redemptions. Yes, it'd be cool if they did, but that's part of the risk in buying any product that could possibly have redemptions.

Razor did not buy Inkworks, just their inventory. Upper Deck bought the Fleer/Skybox company. Huge difference. To my knowledge Inkworks still exists, they've just ceased operations.

If you're complaining "why else would I buy a box of Charmed?", then why did you open the box if you didn't care for the product? There is a market for unopened Charmed products, and there are those that WOULD by them.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well most of us were aware that some of the boxes that were going to be listed in vault were going to be chock full of expired redemptions. It sucks but this is the chance that you take with this product. Realistically though, you probably should have flipped the box if it was selling well on eBay and if you knew that all the big hits were redemptions.
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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This is total b.s. I feel your pain. I had an expired Scoreboard card for an autographed mini basketball that I found in a box in the closet. I called Panini because they bought Donruss, who had bought Score, who's name is similar to Scoreboard. When they laughed at me for trying to make the connection, I told them I was done buying their products, too. Once they heard me say that, they offered me a case of National Treausures!











Then I woke up.
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What box of Charmed did you get to have an Alyssa Milano autograph redemption?
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjbentzen View Post
Upper Deck honored some Fleer redemptions when they first bought them, by at least sending something to the collector even though it didnt match the redemption.
Those were also for live, outstanding redemptions - not expired redemptions.
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldgoldy97 View Post
This is total b.s. I feel your pain. I had an expired Scoreboard card for an autographed mini basketball that I found in a box in the closet. I called Panini because they bought Donruss, who had bought Score, who's name is similar to Scoreboard. When they laughed at me for trying to make the connection, I told them I was done buying their products, too. Once they heard me say that, they offered me a case of National Treausures!











Then I woke up.
I hope this is a joke....

This isn't an attack on you oldgoldy (unless you really did make that call...) but why do people expect so much out of these defunct companies? You knew that Razor had all of the inkworks stuff and inserted all of the good stuff into packs.

I can see how you would want to be compensated for a big hit, but at the same time part of the reasons this stuff is so affordable is because some of the bigger hits are expired redemptions that they in no way could . I do think they should send you an auto as compensation and just to be nice and do the customer friendly thing. The problem with that in doing a decent thing you'd probably hate them more because they didn't send you something that sells as well as a Milano, even though they don't have any liability to send you anything. There is no satisfying most people.
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I hope this is a joke....

This isn't an attack on you oldgoldy (unless you really did make that call...) but why do people expect so much out of these defunct companies? You knew that Razor had all of the inkworks stuff and inserted all of the good stuff into packs.

I can see how you would want to be compensated for a big hit, but at the same time part of the reasons this stuff is so affordable is because some of the bigger hits are expired redemptions that they in no way could . I do think they should send you an auto as compensation and just to be nice and do the customer friendly thing. The problem with that in doing a decent thing you'd probably hate them more because they didn't send you something that sells as well as a Milano, even though they don't have any liability to send you anything. There is no satisfying most people.
oldgoldy was joking -- the reference to waking up meant he was dreaming if he thought that would happen.
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Old 09-15-2009, 04:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Razor has no obligation to redeem expired redemptions. Yes, it'd be cool if they did, but that's part of the risk in buying any product that could possibly have redemptions.

Razor did not buy Inkworks, just their inventory. Upper Deck bought the Fleer/Skybox company. Huge difference. To my knowledge Inkworks still exists, they've just ceased operations.

If you're complaining "why else would I buy a box of Charmed?", then why did you open the box if you didn't care for the product? There is a market for unopened Charmed products, and there are those that WOULD by them.

UD did not buy the Fleer Company as they were out of business before that happened. All UD bought was naming rights for Fleer brands from whomever held those rights.
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Old 09-15-2009, 05:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The last email i got said they bought all the Inkworks stuff through a middleman, they didnt even get it from Inkworks direct. So there "uncirculated" autographs is a JOKE. Someone had them all and they bought them from that person.

BTW: Charmed Conversations-- Milano & McGowen are both Redemptions.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjbentzen View Post
The last email i got said they bought all the Inkworks stuff through a middleman, they didnt even get it from Inkworks direct. So there "uncirculated" autographs is a JOKE. Someone had them all and they bought them from that person.

BTW: Charmed Conversations-- Milano & McGowen are both Redemptions.
I don't want this to come off wrong, but I opened a case of Conversations and there is only a Milano auto and no redemptions. If you go to Inkworks' site, you can see they even state that all autos and pieceworks were in before packing, so no redemptions.

Milano and McGowen are both in Power of Three, which also I opened a case of. I have also seen at least 5 other cases opened with multiple Milano's pulled, and do not remember there being a redemption.

I don't doubt you, but a redemption card for a Milano Autograph would be pretty rare to get if my memory of these products holds true. I have looked at Inkworks' website and also a well known checklist site (Jeff Allender's) to try to see if I was mistaken, but have not found any evidence of a redemption.

So all I am trying to say is that a Redemption card may be worth more than the auto itself.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't want this to come off wrong, but I opened a case of Conversations and there is only a Milano auto and no redemptions. If you go to Inkworks' site, you can see they even state that all autos and pieceworks were in before packing, so no redemptions.

Milano and McGowen are both in Power of Three, which also I opened a case of. I have also seen at least 5 other cases opened with multiple Milano's pulled, and do not remember there being a redemption.

I don't doubt you, but a redemption card for a Milano Autograph would be pretty rare to get if my memory of these products holds true. I have looked at Inkworks' website and also a well known checklist site (Jeff Allender's) to try to see if I was mistaken, but have not found any evidence of a redemption.

So all I am trying to say is that a Redemption card may be worth more than the auto itself.
Yeah...how bout a scan of this magical card?
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I normally don't chime in on these threads but must after reading this one. I purchased some of the Razor Vault boxes too and got a Spirit box. I knew all the autos were redemptions unless you found the ever elusive Samuel L, Jackson. I knew this before opening the box. I pulled a Gabriel Macht redemption autograph card. I thought I would send a nice email off to Razor seeing if they would by any chance do anything. I contacted Angela and she said they were sorry but they had no way of honoring the redemptions but she would be more than happy to send something to me for my troubles. Today I received a nice letter from Angela with an apology and an Brendan Frasier autographed card from the Mummy. I didn't think they would do anything nor would I have been disappointed. To me they went above and beyond what they had to or could have done and I for one commend them on their customer service.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I can scan it later this weekend, when i get it back from my local dealer... I called him to tell of the emails back and forth with Razor and he said he was going to try to get something out of them, since out of the 10 cases he purchased direct, nearly every box had a redemption in it and numerous of the "uncirculated" cards were creased or other damaged.

I told him good luck... told him to list it on ebay if he failed, since galar says it was a live auto..

Also, McCowen has had autographs in Conversations because I own 1, which came out of a pack of the Razor Signature, the 1 card per pack in the plastic case... It is actually a triple signed card.

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Old 09-15-2009, 08:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I normally don't chime in on these threads but must after reading this one. I purchased some of the Razor Vault boxes too and got a Spirit box. I knew all the autos were redemptions unless you found the ever elusive Samuel L, Jackson. I knew this before opening the box. I pulled a Gabriel Macht redemption autograph card. I thought I would send a nice email off to Razor seeing if they would by any chance do anything. I contacted Angela and she said they were sorry but they had no way of honoring the redemptions but she would be more than happy to send something to me for my troubles. Today I received a nice letter from Angela with an apology and an Brendan Frasier autographed card from the Mummy. I didn't think they would do anything nor would I have been disappointed. To me they went above and beyond what they had to or could have done and I for one commend them on their customer service.
Really? They told me they wont even send me a dud... I all I asked was if they were honoring redemptions... and the response I got back was a snappy story... wish I would have talked to Angela instead of Whom ever replied to my email.
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I just shot of a nice polite email to Angela and she emailed me back within a day and about 5 days later I receive the Brendan Frasier card today. Maybe Brian and the other guy are not class acts but Angela is 100%.
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I normally don't chime in on these threads but must after reading this one. I purchased some of the Razor Vault boxes too and got a Spirit box. I knew all the autos were redemptions unless you found the ever elusive Samuel L, Jackson.
The Samuel L Jackson is actually a redemption too. They actually made a special redemption card for this. (Probably to keep people from trying to fake one).
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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UD did not buy the Fleer Company as they were out of business before that happened. All UD bought was naming rights for Fleer brands from whomever held those rights.
I stand corrected. I thought Fleer declared bankruptcy, then UD bought them while they were in bankruptcy.

Did they buy the Fleer name before or after the big auction?
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Also, McCowen has had autographs in Conversations because I own 1, which came out of a pack of the Razor Signature, the 1 card per pack in the plastic case... It is actually a triple signed card.

Sorry bud, I have to call BS on this. There are no "authentic" triple autographed cards in Charmed Conversations (and Rose McGowan did NOT sign for this release). And if there were, it would have the Inkworks Autograph stamp on it.

Got a scan of the back of that card, by chance?

I'm not saying the autos are not authentic, but they did not come from Inkworks signed.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=mjbentzen;327054]since out of the 10 cases he purchased direct, nearly every box had a redemption in it and numerous of the "uncirculated" cards were creased or other damaged.

[QUOTE]


1.) And that is why boxes are around $50 instead of $100.
2.) I opened ten cases as well, and had zero damaged cards, and only a handful of redemptions.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Sorry bud, I have to call BS on this. There are no "authentic" triple autographed cards in Charmed Conversations (and Rose McGowan did NOT sign for this release). And if there were, it would have the Inkworks Autograph stamp on it.

Got a scan of the back of that card, by chance?

I'm not saying the autos are not authentic, but they did not come from Inkworks signed.
Also this card is a parallel base card from Connections, not Conversations.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Also this card is a parallel base card from Connections, not Conversations.
OK. I'm not 100% familiar with the Charmed sets just by looking at them, that's why I asked to see the card back (for the number).

There is someone on Ebay that sells a LOT of signed base cards from Inkworks sets. Mostly Buffy stuff, but I've seen some others as well.
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I stand corrected. I thought Fleer declared bankruptcy, then UD bought them while they were in bankruptcy.

Did they buy the Fleer name before or after the big auction?
I thought it was after the auction. I would have figured that if Upper Deck bought them before the auction that they would have kept all of the stock that they still had instead of auctioning it off.

I went to the auction with my boss and bought office furniture and a few uncut sheets that were framed that they had hanging on the walls in the offices.

Ted, are you going to the show outside of King of Prussia the first weekend in October?
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I thought it was after the auction. I would have figured that if Upper Deck bought them before the auction that they would have kept all of the stock that they still had instead of auctioning it off.

I went to the auction with my boss and bought office furniture and a few uncut sheets that were framed that they had hanging on the walls in the offices.

Ted, are you going to the show outside of King of Prussia the first weekend in October?
I guess it would make sense it was after the auction. I just thought maybe it was a court-ordered thing for them to pay their bills or whatever.


Nah, not going to that show. You're talking the Ultimate Collectibles Show, with all the wrestlers and Philly sports guys, right? As much as I'd like to go (need some '93 Phillies autos), I'm not gonna have the $$$. I'm going to the Horrorfind Convention in MD next weekend, then two weeks later is the Baltimore Comic Con and Allentown Non-Sport show. I'm tapped!
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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OK. I'm not 100% familiar with the Charmed sets just by looking at them, that's why I asked to see the card back (for the number).

There is someone on Ebay that sells a LOT of signed base cards from Inkworks sets. Mostly Buffy stuff, but I've seen some others as well.
This card came out of a Razor Ink box, the encase 1 card per pack product a few months ago. I looked on Ebay and there is a seller that sells alot of signatures on base cards of Inkworks. I sent the seller an email and they said they are 100% real, signed in person, and that they didnt sell any to Razor, but 1 buyer bought over 5,000 card from them... maybe this is the "middleman" that Razor's rep was talking about...

I dont know... the back has card #CC18, 2004 Inkworks, and there is no stamp on it saying anything is authentic signatures...Plus, I couldnt find anything in any price guide that it existed... i am really starting to get ticked off by these Razor products now... that I spent $20 for a pack and got a "maybe" authentic autograph.

Also, Tim, i had 1 box where 1 of the "so called" uncirculated autographed cards had creases through it, right down the center, yet the toploader was not bent at all. Thanks goodness it was a no body from Lost worth $8.
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