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Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I haven't seen much litter boxing, and I have seen good constructive criticism that was not taken the right way. The artists in this genre tend to think every comment is spiteful complaining, even when it is not.

haha. Seriously?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:16 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I haven't seen much litter boxing, and I have seen good constructive criticism that was not taken the right way. The artists in this genre tend to think every comment is spiteful complaining, even when it is not.
Well then that is something else altogether. Been a long time since I've read constructive criticism, seems the harsh comments are what stand out.

I'm not defending anyone who flies off the handle, but most of the things I read aren't nice.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Well then that is something else altogether. Been a long time since I've read constructive criticism, seems the harsh comments are what stand out.

I'm not defending anyone who flies off the handle, but most of the things I read aren't nice.
You sir, are well spoken and wise. I need to be more like you.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Well then that is something else altogether. Been a long time since I've read constructive criticism, seems the harsh comments are what stand out.

I'm not defending anyone who flies off the handle, but most of the things I read aren't nice.
Most message boards are allergic to nice.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Most message boards are allergic to nice.
In this case, at least personally, that's a bit of a reaction to trying to say nice, constructive things and getting people all upset with me. Now I don't say much. . .

I remember a conversation on Scoundrel I was having with an artist where I was actually complimenting her work, but I mentioned that I personally don't typically spend over $50 on a sketch card and despite my compliments she got all ticked off at my comment and went on a bit of a rant -- the gist of which was that I insulted her because of how many hours of work she put into a card vs the maximum I'd be willing to pay.

I actually don't often try to get in conversations with artists that are heading any where near that direction anymore.

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 PM   #106 (permalink)
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... despite my compliments she got all ticked off at my comment and went on a bit of a rant -- the gist of which was that I insulted her because of how many hours of work she put into a card vs the maximum I'd be willing to pay.

I actually don't often try to get in conversations with artists that are heading any where near that direction anymore.
That is exactly what I was talking about, thanks. Happens nearly every time.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:08 PM   #107 (permalink)
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In this case, at least personally, that's a bit of a reaction to trying to say nice, constructive things and getting people all upset with me. Now I don't say much. . .

I remember a conversation on Scoundrel I was having with an artist where I was actually complimenting her work, but I mentioned that I personally don't typically spend over $50 on a sketch card and despite my compliments she got all ticked off at my comment and went on a bit of a rant -- the gist of which was that I insulted her because of how many hours of work she put into a card vs the maximum I'd be willing to pay.

I actually don't often try to get in conversations with artists that are heading any where near that direction anymore.

Jon
That example obviously doesn't fit the mold, that just sounds like an artist with a chip on their shoulder. Bad on her, she lost a potential customer.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:11 PM   #108 (permalink)
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That example obviously doesn't fit the mold, that just sounds like an artist with a chip on their shoulder. Bad on her, she lost a potential customer.
I've found that even trying to discuss art or the business side of sketchcards is very tedious with a few of the so called "higher profile" artists.

I actually had one guy tell me once. "it's complicated, just go to an art store and ask them for advice"
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #109 (permalink)
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That example obviously doesn't fit the mold, that just sounds like an artist with a chip on their shoulder. Bad on her, she lost a potential customer.
Those chips are way too common. I am sure it is just a function of message board culture, since most of the best artists never get involved at all and the loud ones who get offended by every comment stand out like a sore thumb.

Perhaps the worst examples are the ones who get huffy and loudly upset when they post their work and get very few comments. The collectors can't say something nice, so they don't say anything at all. And then they get scolded for it!

That is always pretty funny actually.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:22 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I've found that even trying to discuss art or the business side of sketchcards is very tedious with a few of the so called "higher profile" artists.

I actually had one guy tell me once. "it's complicated, just go to an art store and ask them for advice"
Just curious, do you think that is coming from "big time" syndrome (i.e., I'm too busy or important to talk to you about these things) or do they not want to give away their secrets?
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:31 PM   #111 (permalink)
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I've found that even trying to discuss art or the business side of sketchcards is very tedious with a few of the so called "higher profile" artists.

I actually had one guy tell me once. "it's complicated, just go to an art store and ask them for advice"
Lol that's actually funny. You can say anything you want about me my art. Means nothing. I belong to other sites where we rip each other apart so a few jibes from some faceless collector is nothing. I appreciate people wanting and liking our work but just because you pay doesn't mean you pay to #@#@#@#@ all over someone.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Just curious, do you think that is coming from "big time" syndrome (i.e., I'm too busy or important to talk to you about these things) or do they not want to give away their secrets?
Honestly? In my opinion it's a lot of things. It's a combination of things. Ego. Big time syndrome. Afraid to loose a spot. The clique. Good ole boy network.

When I first broke in with the Shaped Sketchcards in G5, it was generally well received, but it was like moving mountains to get contact info to try to land work for new sets. I clawed and scratched my way and found them though. I wasn't afraid to speak up. And that cost me I think. I did work for a certain company, and then someone in the good ole boy network found their way in to the company acquiring artists, and now I can't get a reply back from them. And when I do happen to get one, it's the standard form letter saying the set is full.

Maybe one day I should write a book about the shady side of sketchcards.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:36 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Just curious, do you think that is coming from "big time" syndrome (i.e., I'm too busy or important to talk to you about these things) or do they not want to give away their secrets?
Most people will guard themselves, so an artist keeping secrets isn't out of the norm. I do a live artcast on Justin Tv every Tues and Thurs and people ask me all kinds of stuff and i give out advice to anyone watching. helpful tips to drawing stuff in such a small area and just tips on clean art overall. I haven't any issues with ego. I've been drawing since I was 6 and professionally for over 25 years. Getting a swelled head is way past me.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:41 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Most people will guard themselves, so an artist keeping secrets isn't out of the norm. I do a live artcast on Justin Tv every Tues and Thurs and people ask me all kinds of stuff and i give out advice to anyone watching. helpful tips to drawing stuff in such a small area and just tips on clean art overall. I haven't any issues with ego. I've been drawing since I was 6 and professionally for over 25 years. Getting a swelled head is way past me.
I agree, it's not out of the norm. But you can do it with tact. (not you, but you in general)

The only thing that gives me a swelled head these days is paint fumes.

And for the record, I've reached out for help on an issue in the past week with justice41, and the information came quick and easy. It was very helpful.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:42 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Honestly? In my opinion it's a lot of things. It's a combination of things. Ego. Big time syndrome. Afraid to loose a spot. The clique. Good ole boy network.

When I first broke in with the Shaped Sketchcards in G5, it was generally well received, but it was like moving mountains to get contact info to try to land work for new sets. I clawed and scratched my way and found them though. I wasn't afraid to speak up. And that cost me I think. I did work for a certain company, and then someone in the good ole boy network found their way in to the company acquiring artists, and now I can't get a reply back from them. And when I do happen to get one, it's the standard form letter saying the set is full.

Maybe one day I should write a book about the shady side of sketchcards.
I would read that book, but then again I love learning about the "inside" stories of niche industries. It's fascinating--all this drama and most of the world doesn't even know it's there at all.

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Most people will guard themselves, so an artist keeping secrets isn't out of the norm. I do a live artcast on Justin Tv every Tues and Thurs and people ask me all kinds of stuff and i give out advice to anyone watching. helpful tips to drawing stuff in such a small area and just tips on clean art overall. I haven't any issues with ego. I've been drawing since I was 6 and professionally for over 25 years. Getting a swelled head is way past me.
That's great. I know Jay is an artist, that's why I was asking. I didn't know how protective people were about the secrets and techniques they've learned over the years when it came to other members of the community. I totally get they aren't going to spill their guts to Joe Collector, though.

To me, it's like sports autographs. I don't need to like the person or have the person like me, I can separate the work and the person and just appreciate things on that level. But if the person goes out of their way to be an obnoxious ass, then I might just vote with my dollars when it comes to that person's work
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #116 (permalink)
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I would read that book, but then again I love learning about the "inside" stories of niche industries. It's fascinating--all this drama and most of the world doesn't even know it's there at all.



That's great. I know Jay is an artist, that's why I was asking. I didn't know how protective people were about the secrets and techniques they've learned over the years when it came to other members of the community. I totally get they aren't going to spill their guts to Joe Collector, though.

To me, it's like sports autographs. I don't need to like the person or have the person like me, I can separate the work and the person and just appreciate things on that level. But if the person goes out of their way to be an obnoxious ass, then I might just vote with my dollars when it comes to that person's work
I encourage people to do what I do. Hell I've even had people over to show them how to do it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:26 PM   #117 (permalink)
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There is a certain level of skill that cannot be taught. It can be seen in the pure drawing talent, when an artist draws on the cards. Studying art in college helps to identify the difference between an average line and an extraordinary line, but one collector I talked to said he learned to see it by going to museums when he was a kid.

(Cutting stencils from other people's work is a seperate method, more of a craft project.)

The thing I have never been able to figure out... Do the sensitive artists who insist that their work should never be questioned actually know the difference between top talent and average talent, or are they just feeling inferior when they lash out at people who comment on their work?

We may never know.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:35 PM   #118 (permalink)
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There is a certain level of skill that cannot be taught. It can be seen in the pure drawing talent, when an artist draws on the cards. Studying art in college helps to identify the difference between an average line and an extraordinary line, but one collector I talked to said he learned it by going to museums when he was a kid.

(Cutting stencils from other people's work is a seperate method, more of a craft project.)

The thing I have never been able to figure out... Do the sensitive artists who insist that their work should never be questioned actually know the difference between top talent and average talent, or are they just feeling inferior when they lash out at people who comment on their work?

We may never know.
Haha. There's the Rian we all know and love.

Now back away from the negative comment with some crafty spin and act like you didn't take a shot. It's what you do best.

Speaking of something we may never know. Why am I chosen as your constant target on multiple message boards?

Cue the crickets.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:40 PM   #119 (permalink)
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My favorite craft project (just having some fun )

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Old 12-10-2012, 05:40 PM   #120 (permalink)
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For all the Blowout form folks, you can see that Jason Adams does not like me from some things that were said in the past. You can also see that I will never speak to him again.

I stand by my opinions. There are some artists who have superior talent and it shows on the cards, and cutting stencils from other people's work is a completely different medium.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #121 (permalink)
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My favorite craft project (just having some fun )

That is really awesome. We do the same kind of project with our summer camp at the University of Miami.

Well done.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:43 PM   #122 (permalink)
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I would read that book, but then again I love learning about the "inside" stories of niche industries. It's fascinating--all this drama and most of the world doesn't even know it's there at all.



That's great. I know Jay is an artist, that's why I was asking. I didn't know how protective people were about the secrets and techniques they've learned over the years when it came to other members of the community. I totally get they aren't going to spill their guts to Joe Collector, though.

To me, it's like sports autographs. I don't need to like the person or have the person like me, I can separate the work and the person and just appreciate things on that level. But if the person goes out of their way to be an obnoxious ass, then I might just vote with my dollars when it comes to that person's work
I actually don't care how nasty a professional is. Not going to rent space in the noggin to a-holes of the world. The Supposed Nastiest professional artists i've encountered were not in the least. They did not live up to rep. To me sometimes the really stupid stuff fans ask could really get under someone's skin so some may develop personalities to ward off those types.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:45 PM   #123 (permalink)
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My favorite craft project (just having some fun )

Here's some pics from our summer camp at the University of Miami:



Good times.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:46 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Do the sensitive artists who insist that their work should never be questioned actually know the difference between top talent and average talent, or are they just feeling inferior when they lash out at people who comment on their work?
I think you're confusing the art world with something that is very objective. While it might be easy to spot a Van Gogh over my doodlings the same is not true when you move forward in time. As such, I sort of sympathize with the artists -- especially considering that the internet has given us instant exposure to every artist making them a small fish in an ocean instead of locally a relatively good artist. I think I read in some thread on here about the level of detail going into "chibi" artwork in a sketch card and how most people wouldn't be able to spot it? That's what I'm getting at ... I think Warhol's artwork terrible art hackery and yet the art world called him a revolutionary. Oh well, to each their own. I'd say "Why am I looking at soup cans?" to my friends but I'd politely compliment the artist if he were alive and standing in front me. But saying stuff on the internet puts it out in front of everyone.

You're free to say what you want (this is 'Merica) but I personally don't feel comfortable criticizing work in front of the person that made it and if I do, I make sure it's positive criticism. At the very least I'd say what I like about it first and then mention what I'm really thinking. I write code for a living and I take the same approach during code reviews.

When it's something I do on the side like playing bass guitar, you're free to let me have it. But when the bread and butter and that which I've spent most of my life doing is compared to the greatest out there? And when some random person is telling me it's bad? That's when I think you might get a taste for zero tolerance on the artist's side of this business.

Just a thought, I am not an artist but I appreciate how few revenue streams that profession offers and so I sympathize with them. Personally I'll leave the criticism to those who know how to offer them something useful ... there's no way I'm going to be able to see that, say, the shadows need work even though I might be able to say something's off and my eye doesn't like it.

If you're a paying customer that didn't like the art, there is no feedback better than not purchasing/collecting anymore of their stuff. If you can't specifically tell them what they could improve on to have you buying it left and right, there's really not a great reason to negatively engage. If you're not a paying customer and your 'comments' are largely negative, I think anyone would react negatively in that situation.

That's my own personal thoughts on it anyway.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:48 PM   #125 (permalink)
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For all the Blowout form folks, you can see that Jason Adams does not like me from some things that were said in the past. You can also see that I will never speak to him again.

I stand by my opinions. There are some artists who have superior talent and it shows on the cards, and cutting stencils from other people's work is a completely different medium.
Haha, just talk smack right?

And yeah, you certainly have clearly been an ass on other boards directed at me. Without provocation. You're the classic example of an Internet troll. But these guys already know as many have asked me privately what your deal is.

Simply put. You're a classless troll that says your an art teacher. Shouldn't you be teaching rather than playing on the Internet all day?
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