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Old 01-29-2013, 05:14 PM   #251 (permalink)
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I would also point out that the phrase "meaningful markings" is inherently value-laden and subjective, and that those who erased art would argue that what they received were not "meaningful markings." "Markings made by a human" is something of a broad definition of "art." So broad as to be functionally useless.
Call them whatever you want and the argument remains the same. Also, I was trying to select verbiage that would allow people to refer to some of the more absurdist forms of art as 'art.'

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A human being exposed to its natural environment can be expected to live decades. Cardboard exposed to the environment will decompose in about two months. There is nothing inherent in the construction of a card that would lead us to expect it to out-last the life of its creator.
Congratulations, you win the award for the most absurd and vapid thing I've read on blowoutcards.com.

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This is a common belief. It is also wrong in the vast majority of cases.

Do Prices Increase When an Artist Dies? Facts About Death and Art Values
Vast majority of cases? You link to one anecdote about someone asking if they should wait until an artist dies to cash out? Really? That was a rather complete survey of the entire art world including Pascal Cucaro all the way to Pascal Cucaro.

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At this point I will remind you that the artist's addition to the cards was what you referred to as "meaningful markings." What I've seen did not result in the erasure of the "licensed markings" that denote that the card is part of a larger corpus of work that has been reviewed and approved for inclusion in a licensed product. For your point above to have merit, the person who erased the sketch would have to be able to purchase not just blank card-stock, but blank cards from that set with the licensing information on them. Is that realistic?
Not at all because the card was not licensed by the manufacturer in this way. Whether they got out their own printing machine and put the licensed markings on there themselves or just left the old ones on the card they erased, the card is still not licensed by the manufacturer! It's still an illegitimate card in the eyes of the manufacturer and I'm sure any manufacturer would treat that as a destroyed product or card! The stupid thing is that we will forever have the technology to make those licensed markings but once the artist is dead, no one will be able to make art just as they have.

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I appreciate the intellectual exercise of attempting to establish a moral argument in this case; I just don't think your assumptions allow the case to be made all that well.

(And for the record, I think erasing art is incredibly sleazy, and misrepresenting altered art is practically the definition of "fraud." I just don't agree with your argument as structured. )
Thanks buddy, you're doing a bang up job here too. Your argument was so much better and sound than mine. Well done.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:20 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Thanks buddy, you're doing a bang up job here too. Your argument was so much better and sound than mine. Well done.
But where do you stand on the eating of pork?

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:22 PM   #253 (permalink)
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But where do you stand on the eating of pork?


Been on a diet for a month - I miss bacon.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:22 PM   #254 (permalink)
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But where do you stand on the eating of pork?

All for it. Born and raised on a form. Ate bacon in one sitting until I threw up at a young age. Couldn't eat it for 8 years without gagging after that. Recently have reacquired THE HUNGER.

At night I feed. And also in the morning and sometimes in sandwiches during the afternoon .... moo MOOOOOO
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:37 PM   #255 (permalink)
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All for it. Born and raised on a form. Ate bacon in one sitting until I threw up at a young age. Couldn't eat it for 8 years without gagging after that. Recently have reacquired THE HUNGER.

At night I feed. And also in the morning and sometimes in sandwiches during the afternoon .... moo MOOOOOO
Word.

I am cooking two pounds of bacon right now and our house smells like HEAVEN.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #256 (permalink)
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Wow. That is one hell of a sentence.

For your information, you just made an oxymoron.

Absolutely. Morally. Wrong? Do you understand what you just said? Do you understand the definitions of those words?

Really?

Wow. That is one hell of a sentence.

You could go to Hell for writing that!!!
Wow! You are redundant. Not only in trolling artists all over the internet, but also in your pathetic attempts to insult people. It's no wonder so many artists blacklist you.

Learn First!! Then your insults will not be so embarrassing for you.

Moral absolutism is an ethical view that certain actions are absolutely right or wrong, regardless of other circumstances such as their consequences or the intentions behind them. Thus stealing, for instance, might be considered to be always immoral, even if done to promote some other good (e.g., stealing food to feed a starving family), and even if it does in the end promote such a good. Moral absolutism stands in contrast to other categories of normative ethical theories such as consequentialism, which holds that the morality (in the wide sense) of an act depends on the consequences or the context of the act.

You have so many posts, without contributing a bit to the conversation. All you do is tell people they don't understand, or try to poke fun at grammar.

I'm glad to see so many people coming over here and leaving the negativity of Scoundrel. Although I wish people like Rian would have stayed there.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:43 PM   #257 (permalink)
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I'm glad to see so many people coming over here and leaving the negativity of Scoundrel. Although I wish people Like Rian would have stayed there.
But where do you stand on the eating of pork?

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:51 PM   #258 (permalink)
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Okay, I can admit when I am wrong and I did find something absolutely morally wrong just now.

If someone would go to the eBay links in the member profiles here in these forums, and "buy" something overpriced from the listings, and never pay for the item, and post negative feedback to ruin someone's perfect rating, that would be absolutely morally wrong.

So I was wrong.

Now, I need to eat my share of this bacon. Later!
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:53 PM   #259 (permalink)
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But where do you stand on the eating of pork?

RIAN FIKE: In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "But where do you stand on the eating of pork?"
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:56 PM   #260 (permalink)
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RIAN FIKE: In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3] The noun troll may also refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "But where do you stand on the eating of pork?"
But I tried talking to you intelligently, but you just wanted to insult me. So, if you would, please check the other posts I made in this thread. You might learn something.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:04 PM   #261 (permalink)
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I can't stop reading this thread. Its like when I was flipping through channels the other day and stopped on "Honey Boo Boo"

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...and I still see this as a form of protest that could lead to an improvement in the quality of sketch cards in the future.
Rian - You really have your head in the clouds if you think this thread will improve the quality of sketch cards. That quality of sketch cards will not improve unless the 'acceptable standards' of the companies improve - this thread is not the way to get their attention. This thread certainly has reached a couple of artists - and I expect those that are currently doing their best will continue to do so and those that are turning in the bare minimum will also continue to do so...

If there is one thing this thread IS NOT - Its an inspiration to artists to do a better job for sketch card collectors. Quite the opposite, as many of the participating "art collectors" have shown our absolute worst sides.

Have to agree with Monkey. Wish this had been locked down - if only to prevent offending more sketch card artists than we already have.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:07 PM   #262 (permalink)
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Dude, if you honestly think that our drooling babble on a message board makes any difference either way...

You need to get out off the computer and get outside.

This is a bunch of dorks pretending to be important. (Yes, that includes me.)

This is not the real world, and it makes no difference at all.

EDIT: But it sure is fun, right???
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:14 PM   #263 (permalink)
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Okay, I can admit when I am wrong and I did find something absolutely morally wrong just now.

If someone would go to the eBay links in the member profiles here in these forums, and "buy" something overpriced from the listings, and never pay for the item, and post negative feedback to ruin someone's perfect rating, that would be absolutely morally wrong.

So I was wrong.

Now, I need to eat my share of this bacon. Later!

That is SO WRONG. You should take that back before you burn in Hell forever.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:21 PM   #265 (permalink)
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Yes, that is a real thing. No Photoshop.

Russia. Snow melted, then froze again.

So cool.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:20 PM   #266 (permalink)
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If the point is to send a message to both the companies and certain artists producing these $1 sketches then maybe people pulling these sketches should just destroy them and mail the remnants to the companies.
Do a scan of the card, burn half of it, scan the results ( so you have a before and after scan) and mail the other half to the company with a note about their quality control.

No ethical or legal quandries here, it's your own damn property and you can destroy it if you like. If some artists feel insulted about their "art" being turned into ashes, well, maybe that's what is needed.

If companies start getting back a bunch of destroyed cards with letters of complaint, maybe they will take notice.
There's certainly not much downside, many of these cards are literally not worth selling as they often sell for less than $1.50 the artist was paid to do them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #267 (permalink)
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Congratulations, you win the award for the most absurd and vapid thing I've read on blowoutcards.com.
Ah, I see that the level of intellectual discourse is about as low here as it is on most of the internet. This does explain your signature a bit.

Seeing how welcoming the community is here, I'll wander off to other corners of the web. Maybe go argue politics and religion or whatnot - things that are worthy of pointless personal attacks.

If you're going to try building arguments, I'd suggest not leaving holes in them through which trucks can be driven. If you don't like being called out on gross generalizations, unsupportable assumptions, and hand-waving in the guise of "logic," try not posting such. The ability to string together sentences with polysyllabic words is not in and of itself all that impressive, though in the modern public discourse environment it's often mistaken for high intellect.

Don't get me wrong. I think you're clearly a smart guy. I don't see a reason to try to make the moral argument you tried to make, though, and for all the reasons noted above, in my opinion you failed. I, on the other hand, wasn't trying to make any argument at all. I think that destroying art is disrespectful, and selling altered art as unaltered is fraudulent. Those are opinions, not arguments, and I'm willing to own them as opinions along the same lines as the one I now hold about you.

Have fun with your community.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #268 (permalink)
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Ah, I see that the level of intellectual discourse is about as low here as it is on most of the internet.
Surely this was an absurd statement:

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A human being exposed to its natural environment can be expected to live decades. Cardboard exposed to the environment will decompose in about two months. There is nothing inherent in the construction of a card that would lead us to expect it to out-last the life of its creator.
Unless you think that art is stored in swamps and forests with no care given to it. It wasn't a "pointless personal attack" it was asking what on Earth that "hole of logic" has to do with my argument? I mean, along your line of thought we can argue that art as a whole is completely worthless since it doesn't bring in the harvest ... ? What the heck does environmental hostility towards humans and art have to do with this discussion? Hence, that is the reason I found it absurd and vapid. We have clearly overcome these restrictions on lifespan for both humans and art!

Ah, and I leave holes you could drive a truck through yet you just state your opinion and back it up with absolutely nothing. Which position contributes more to the discussion at hand?

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This does explain your signature a bit.
Ah, the perceived ad hominem attack is met with like response. I see you hold yourself to higher standards. Enjoy your religion and politics!
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:57 AM   #269 (permalink)
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This at one point was a very good thread. You have very good opinions from both sides of the spectrum - even if you didn't agree with it. You at least were given a someone else's point of view of a situation.

Now this thread has turned into a complete and utter mess with a bunch of crap being thrown from one member to another. Great job of contributing to the actual topic of this thread.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:05 PM   #270 (permalink)
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This at one point was a very good thread. You have very good opinions from both sides of the spectrum - even if you didn't agree with it. You at least were given a someone else's point of view of a situation.
Actually I never heard unamuzd1's present an argument or a point of view. All I heard is that he thought my argument was based on false premises and that I was using big words to sound intelligent.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:36 PM   #271 (permalink)
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This at one point was a very good thread. You have very good opinions from both sides of the spectrum - even if you didn't agree with it. You at least were given a someone else's point of view of a situation.

Now this thread has turned into a complete and utter mess with a bunch of crap being thrown from one member to another. Great job of contributing to the actual topic of this thread.
As I said in another thread. EVERY thread on this and most forums seems to devolve into an insulting match that has little or nothing to do with the OP.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:39 PM   #272 (permalink)
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As I said in another thread. EVERY thread on this and most forums seems to devolve into an insulting match that has little or nothing to do with the OP.
Really? My post trying to argue a logical reason behind why art shouldn't be destroyed had nothing to do with the OP? My attempts to defend my base assumptions had nothing to do with that position?

I'm seriously at a loss for words here. If we can't try to make logical arguments defending our positions and engage in debate about the premises and steps involved in said arguments then how do you hope to make any headway at all?
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #273 (permalink)
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Repetition is not arguing, it's badgering, It's pointless, it kills true discussion and it exposes real motivations.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:27 PM   #274 (permalink)
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Repetition is not arguing, it's badgering, It's pointless, it kills true discussion and it exposes real motivations.
I'm sorry you've found me to be repetitious and badgering. I'm really confused as I saw no one else trying to discover the root reason of why the OP would be immoral or moral. I guess a discussion about the underlying reasons behind our opinions "kills true discussion and exposes real motivations." Could you tell me what my "real motivation" is since I've exposed it?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:31 PM   #275 (permalink)
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Repetition is not arguing, it's badgering, It's pointless, it kills true discussion and it exposes real motivations.
There's nothing wrong with reiterating your point. It doesn't mean there is any intent to badger someone who holds an opposing view. Some of us are just trying to keep this debate on track, and hoping that we get more input from other board members. If people are unable to accept someone elses pov, then perhaps they shouldn't be participating in this thread, that goes for consumers and artists who rage over this subject. Lets try to keep it a friendly discussion.

There seems to be 3 sides here:
1) It isn't right to erase a sketch. The artists are only doing what the company is paying them to do. Afterall, it's just a "sketch".
2) The company needs to be held accountable and there are artists who should be ashamed of themselves for doing such poor quality work.
3) If you payed for the card, you should be able to do what you want with it. Including but not limited to, altering the sketch with or without the intent to resell.

Last edited by Ronin; 01-30-2013 at 04:38 PM. Reason: edit to pov
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