Erasing a Sub-Par Sketch: What Say You?

[Rian Fike]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

I'm sorry Rian... this is totally untrue.

Some card producers will pay a lot more under contract, per card, to certain artists.

I will not name names, but 1 producer was paying $10 per painted card from a well-known sketch card artist - where they were paying $2 for a colored card from a lesser-known artist in the genre.

Rusty, you know I love you but I don't think that is the case with the major companies. Smaller companies maybe.

I could be wrong, and there is really no way to find out with the NDAs that are included in the contracts.

Whatever the truth, it would be nice if we could get all artists paid more and attract more top level talent to the industry.

[rustygilligan]

Originally Posted by jadams

RUSTY!!!!! Whats up big guy?

Hiya man, just working the day away in the cold LOL

[rustygilligan]

Originally Posted by Rian Fike

Rusty, you know I love you but I don't think that is the case with the major companies. Smaller companies maybe.
I could be wrong, and there is really no way to find out with the NDAs that are included in the contracts.
Whatever the truth, it would be nice if we could get all artists paid more and attract more top level talent to the industry.

Not looking to argue, but what I'm referring to ARE top level companies.
The smaller companies offer the same rates 99% of the time.

I would LOVE to see larger producers offer the same rates to all artists, but you'd see a major difference in the final products.
Some 'primadonnas' would drop out, others would just do 'lesser quality' cards because they feel that they are 'too good' for the low rates.

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by Ronin

no good sir, infact i'm quite serious.

i hope you're joking.

not all the sketches are like the sketch in question. for the most part, i think this product is quality and lots of people who purchase this product are fans of star wars.

maybe i sound rediculous to you, but you sound fking crazy to me bro.

i know they are not like all like that. your serious about altering sketches?

[baytowntex]

who cares what the artist get paid. its their personal business
altering cards is a crime no matter who does it

[rustygilligan]

Originally Posted by baytowntex

who cares what the artist get paid. its their personal business
altering cards is a crime no matter who does it

I agree 100% baytowntex - in any case, a fan is lucky to get ANY sketch card and should be considered as such.

[monkeymcgee]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

I agree 100% baytowntex - in any case, a fan is lucky to get ANY sketch card and should be considered as such.

Well, I've got to disagree here. You are paying to get that sketch card. It's not a present being given to you.

If you get something that is below average, I think you can be disappointed.

It doesn't mean you should erase it, though.

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by baytowntex

who cares what the artist get paid. its their personal business
altering cards is a crime no matter who does it

I brought it up because people are criticizing artists based on this work. In fact someone up the thread called out Howard Shum. I bought up what they're paid to defend the artists that might be producing cards at the level they're paid when they really are capable of doing better work.

[natbornkiller]

Originally Posted by Ronin

found another gem from topps

i rather prefer the doodle in the bottom right hand corner over the sketch itself

whos is that even suppose to be ?

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

Well, I've got to disagree here. You are paying to get that sketch card. It's not a present being given to you.

If you get something that is below average, I think you can be disappointed.

It doesn't mean you should erase it, though.

its a gamble ..of course, Everyone gets disappointed when they dont get the hit they want...yes, never erase it,

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by natbornkiller

whos is that even suppose to be ?

who cares, they got a sorry hit and that's part of the game

[natbornkiller]

Originally Posted by dd316

Might as well erase some of Da Vinci or Rembrandt's works since they didn't have the foresight to use inks. What a bunch of dummies!

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

didnt artist back in the day paint over others work all the time ?

[rustygilligan]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

Well, I've got to disagree here. You are paying to get that sketch card. It's not a present being given to you.
If you get something that is below average, I think you can be disappointed.
It doesn't mean you should erase it, though.

And, in return I say... you are paying to buy trading cards, and sketch cards are a random... there is no guarantee that you are getting one - nor is there a guarantee that you are getting your favorite artist.

Being disappointed doesn't excuse defacing art, or, breaking the terms of a producers' license.


Again, I don't want to argue - I'll just shut up after this really - as a sketch card artist myself, I just feel that the artists in this case need to be stuck up for.

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

I brought it up because people are criticizing artists based on this work. In fact someone up the thread called out Howard Shum. I bought up what they're paid to defend the artists that might be producing cards at the level they're paid when they really are capable of doing better work.

ok well i wasnt directly talking to you..more like everyone... yah but they know its part of the gamble but they just want to cry about it

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by natbornkiller

didnt artist back in the day paint over others work all the time ?

And haven't we developed scads of technology to try to undo that? Or even just glimpse what was under it? Just because mistakes were made in the past doesn't mean we have to keep making them today -- conversely we should learn from those mistakes. I thought the reason for this was it was they didn't have money to buy another canvas and prep it. What a shame ... and the topic at hand will be treated the exact same way in the future.

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by natbornkiller

didnt artist back in the day paint over others work all the time ?

were not back in the day... this is 2013

[Rian Fike]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

Not looking to argue, but what I'm referring to ARE top level companies.

The smaller companies offer the same rates 99% of the time.

I am not sure you can trust your sources on this one, and we will never really know.

Either way, the artists should all be paid better. That is the only way to increase the quality and attract better talent.

[sdoug76]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

And, in return I say... you are paying to buy trading cards, and sketch cards are a random... there is no guarantee that you are getting one - nor is there a guarantee that you are getting your favorite artist.

Being disappointed doesn't excuse defacing art, or, breaking the terms of a producers' license.


Again, I don't want to argue - I'll just shut up after this really - as a sketch card artist myself, I just feel that the artists in this case need to be stuck up for.

Must be reading this wrong. Sell sheets say "x" number of sketch cards per box. That is a guarantee you will get said number of sketch cards per box. If I recall correctly SW Galaxy was 1 per box.

I just see it as the ole spending money to make money. In the case of sketch cards the artist time is the "money" they are spending. If they put quality work into the sketch cards they will earn more money on the back end via AP's and commission work.

Quality work in more and higher price AP's and commissions will come Thier way. Put crap into the product less commissions and lower priced AP's on the back end.

It is like advertising, and frankly great advertising for artist that are not well known. And advertising cost money, in this case the artist time and effort.

[monkeymcgee]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

And, in return I say... you are paying to buy trading cards, and sketch cards are a random... there is no guarantee that you are getting one - nor is there a guarantee that you are getting your favorite artist.

I understand you won't respond, but I just wanted to say that in many products now you are guaranteed a sketch card and that is in fact the main thing you are buying the box to get.

I think anyone who busts wax knows you will likely not get what you want. However, there is an expected "bottom" of what you could possibly pull and when you get something below that you are going to be disappointed. And why wouldn't you be?

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by Rian Fike

I am not sure you can trust your sources on this one, and we will never really know.

Either way, the artists should all be paid better. That is the only way to increase the quality and attract better talent.

Why do you think they should be paid better. are the artists forced to take the job? NO..

[eldavojohn]

Originally Posted by sdoug76

Must be reading this wrong. Sell sheets say "x" number of sketch cards per box. That is a guarantee you will get said number of sketch cards per box. If I recall correctly SW Galaxy was 1 per box.

No, it still says "on average." I have opened one Galaxy 5 hobby box with no sketch and I have opened one Galaxy 7 hobby box with no sketch (but tons of cel card "hits"). And the distributor said Topps would likely just say "on average."

[rustygilligan]

Originally Posted by Rian Fike

I am not sure you can trust your sources on this one, and we will never really know.
Either way, the artists should all be paid better. That is the only way to increase the quality and attract better talent.

I wouldn't have bothered posting this, or anything else Rian, if I didn't know 100% for sure.

As an artist, I have worked for many of these large scale producers, and seen it first-hand. Thank you.

[baytowntex]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

I understand you won't respond, but I just wanted to say that in many products now you are guaranteed a sketch card and that is in fact the main thing you are buying the box to get.

I think anyone who busts wax knows you will likely not get what you want. However, there is an expected "bottom" of what you could possibly pull and when you get something below that you are going to be disappointed. And why wouldn't you be?

we know people get disapointed but this is about people comitting crimes by erasing sketch cards

[Tim]

Originally Posted by rustygilligan

I just feel that the artists in this case need to be stuck up for.

Ah the fraternity again. I have respect for all people and all opinions. And thus I see where you are coming from. But what about the dealers and collectors? Who is sticking up for them? Certainly not Topps, and frankly, certainly not the artists who drew the first sketch and the rabbitt, etc. (ok - so the JH sketch isn't a rabbitt, but i don't know what the hell it is and i pulled several of that exact same rendering, but i digress.)

to me, there is nothing more annoying than bad behavior (or business practices) being excused or deflected out of misplaced loyalty or personal reasons. why make excuses for anyone? ALL of the following is bad:

1.) erasing a sketch - (defacing a work of art)
2.) rendering a 30-second sketch that a six-year-old could do that shows NO sense of pride or work ethic
3.) manufacturers allowing inferior content into their products
4.) manufacturers underpaying artists - hell i'd rather pay a lot more money for a box of cards that has all high quality effort/art inside


finally, to piggyback just a little from gary's post, i have a couple other points:

1.) if an artist is trying to pay the bills and has average talent, i have no problem AT ALL with doing 30-second sketches and getting paid - we all have to feed our families. shame on the manufacturer for hiring and/or approving said sketches in that case...
but
2.) if an artist has talent to burn and mails it in for a release, well, i look at it this way: why would I commission that artist when he/she gave nothing to us upfront in the packs? i commission the artists who actually take time and produce great pack-inserted sketches. I spent nearly $1000.00 commissioning just two artists this month because they give 100% every time for their pack-inserted sketches. Seems to me both collectors and artists should take note of this.

(again, all i ask for is effort - when i ship a sketch or trading card, i don't throw it in a plain white envelope to save time and money - i carefully take the card and put it in a penny sleeve, then a toploader, then tape, then the bubble mailer, then protection in the bubble mailer. anything less than that is a bad work ethic for a dealer. it would be nice if everyone in the process - the manufacturers, the artists, and the dealers would all practice good work ethics. and i realize the majority of all of us DO. unfortunately the "negative" stuff - the exceptiions -- always stand out and get noticied.)

[Tim]

Originally Posted by eldavojohn

No, it still says "on average." I have opened one Galaxy 5 hobby box with no sketch and I have opened one Galaxy 7 hobby box with no sketch (but tons of cel card "hits"). And the distributor said Topps would likely just say "on average."

That is simply to cover their rears - Galaxy products are one sketch per box - THAT is the hit. anything less and you contact topps for a replacement. (which is another story but i won't digress and give details about how incredibly awful topps' customer service is)