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Old 01-25-2013, 03:56 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by baytowntex View Post
i know they are not like all like that. your serious about altering sketches?
Yes, I would erase it and I would commission another artist to produce a quality sketch on the card. My intent would be to keep it for my personal collection. I cannot speak for anyone else. I don't care if people do not agree with this. I certainly would not advertise that I'm doing or have done such a thing, as the company could take legal action.

Last edited by Ronin; 01-25-2013 at 04:19 PM. Reason: girafficornasus says... "aww yiss"
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:15 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rustygilligan View Post
I wouldn't have bothered posting this, or anything else Rian, if I didn't know 100% for sure.

As an artist, I have worked for many of these large scale producers, and seen it first-hand. Thank you.
You're welcome. (I was tempted to go for a Manti Teo joke, but I won't.)

Bottom line? Almost all the sketch card artists, maybe all of them, get paid nearly nothing for these cards. If they have top level skill, they move on to better paying art jobs as soon as they can.

Happy Friday!!!
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:21 PM   #128 (permalink)
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didnt artist back in the day paint over others work all the time ?
Many times they painted over their own work because new supplies were expensive.

Or you could be referring to this:
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:31 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Yes, I would erase it and I would commission another artist to produce a quality sketch on the card. My intent would be to keep it for my personal collection. I cannot speak for anyone else. I don't care if people do not agree with this. I certainly would not advertise that I'm doing or have done such a thing, as the company could take legal action.
you say its for your personal collection but im sure it will survive after we are gone..and thats the problem..and the sketch artists should know better
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:48 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by baytowntex View Post
you say its for your personal collection but im sure it will survive after we are gone..and thats the problem..and the sketch artists should know better
If I want to sell it after I erase and commission a new sketch on it, I will. I payed for the product, i'm the consumer. Don't piss off the consumer.

Yes, I'm a very bad and selfish man.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:53 PM   #131 (permalink)
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If I want to sell it after I erase and commission a new sketch on it, I will. I payed for the product, i'm the consumer. Don't piss off the consumer.

Yes, I'm a very bad and selfish man.
thats fine..just let us know who the artist is that did it
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:05 PM   #132 (permalink)
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thats fine..just let us know who the artist is that did it
i must admit, this made me laugh vigorously. what in god's name makes you think I would post the artists name? didn't you read my other posts, you know the ones you quoted?

Last edited by Ronin; 01-25-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:46 PM   #133 (permalink)
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am i really the only one willing to admit that "30 second sketch that could have been done by a 6 year old" is in fact much better than they could do? its way better than i could do. but yeah - i'd be flippant if i pulled that thing out of a box i paid fair market price for.

btw... Jason - i love the stencil and spray paint comic book cover i bought off your web store
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by natbornkiller View Post
number 6

thats swhy i am to this date hesitant to buy any topps non sports product
I'm an a$$ man but I gotta say I like the new avatar.

Oh and I have no opinion on the sketch.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:52 PM   #135 (permalink)
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am i really the only one willing to admit that "30 second sketch that could have been done by a 6 year old" is in fact much better than they could do? its way better than i could do. but yeah - i'd be flippant if i pulled that thing out of a box i paid fair market price for.

btw... Jason - i love the stencil and spray paint comic book cover i bought off your web store
No, I will admit the same. My drawing ability is horrendous. I think that's one reason I like these sketches so much
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:55 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by baytowntex View Post
we know people get disapointed but this is about people comitting crimes by erasing sketch cards
. . . I am anti altering cards. . . but I have to ask -- how is it illegal to erase a sketch card? Or even alter it?

Certainly trying to modify a card and misrepresent it is fraud. . . but as a consumer I have no contract with the company. . . Certainly artists who were contracted with the company might be able subject to some recourse if they were caught altering cards. . . but how would it be illegal for anyone else?
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:07 PM   #137 (permalink)
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. . . I am anti altering cards. . . but I have to ask -- how is it illegal to erase a sketch card? Or even alter it?

Certainly trying to modify a card and misrepresent it is fraud. . . but as a consumer I have no contract with the company. . . Certainly artists who were contracted with the company might be able subject to some recourse if they were caught altering cards. . . but how would it be illegal for anyone else?
I'm sure there's some copyright/trademark issues involved since the packed out cards and AP/AR have to be reviewed and approved by the card company and license holder.

If you keep it for yourself, I guess no one would know, but you're going to have a tough time finding a artist who will draw on your "blank" because of that.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:26 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by monkeymcgee View Post
I'm sure there's some copyright/trademark issues involved since the packed out cards and AP/AR have to be reviewed and approved by the card company and license holder.

If you keep it for yourself, I guess no one would know, but you're going to have a tough time finding a artist who will draw on your "blank" because of that.
Let's taking finding someone to work on the card out of the picture. . .

What if I took that Ackbar, colored it and put it on eBay -- I don't see how that would possibly be illegal. That's like saying I can't buy a Chevy Nova and repaint or customize it. . .

Also, by that logic if I had the original actor sign the card that would be illegal too. . . so would having an actor sign a comic book that featured the character they portrayed.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:30 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Your Chevy Nova isn't depicting a licensed character on official card company stock with licensed trademarks on it.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can weigh in, but I believe that's the issue with it.
Does a tradmark denote that the card may not be altered by the consumer?

Last edited by Ronin; 01-25-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:39 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by webjon View Post
Let's taking finding someone to work on the card out of the picture. . .

What if I took that Ackbar, colored it and put it on eBay -- I don't see how that would possibly be illegal. That's like saying I can't buy a Chevy Nova and repaint or customize it. . .

Also, by that logic if I had the original actor sign the card that would be illegal too. . . so would having an actor sign a comic book that featured the character they portrayed.
Your Chevy Nova isn't depicting a licensed character on official card company stock with licensed trademarks on it.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can weigh in, but I believe that's the issue with it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #141 (permalink)
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So saying all this I will be doing an artcast tonight probably drawing one of the Batman Artists Proofs I have.
http://www.livestream.com/roydraws

Last edited by justice41; 01-25-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:46 PM   #142 (permalink)
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I'm sure there's some copyright/trademark issues involved since the packed out cards and AP/AR have to be reviewed and approved by the card company and license holder.
We all assume that.

I still wonder, can they go after you if you deside to erase it? can they go after this artist you commission to draw a new sketch on that card? can they go after you then when you attempt to sell the altered card?

Lets pretend it's legal. The sketch community will still be divided over whether this is ok or not. Certain artists may still get butthurt over their garbage sketches being altered.

Last edited by Ronin; 01-25-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Your Chevy Nova isn't depicting a licensed character on official card company stock with licensed trademarks on it.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can weigh in, but I believe that's the issue with it.
Certainly the design of the car is protected, as well as the the name Chevy and Nova. . . all of that is trademarked/copy protected. Additionally the colors the car are produced in are pre-approved, and obviously the car is an official Chevy Nova.

. . . why argue that point thought -- what about the comments on getting something autographed -- it's just as altered then. . .

What if I drew a ladybug on the Star Wars card. . . who cares -- I don't have a contract with anyone -- the licensee (Topps or the artist, depending on the point in the chain) has a contract that says the cards must be approved -- I don't. . . I don't have a contract with Topps or anyone else. . . If I'm drawing a ladybug it's not copyright infringement and it's no more illegal than if I painted flames on a Nova.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:06 PM   #144 (permalink)
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As an artist that just started working with "sketch" cards, I treated them as canvases for full paintings. I wanted to be proud of my work and wanted people to be happy to get my card in a box. So, I put a lot of time into each card. But i had the luxury of not needing to crank out a large number of cards for money. Also, if the artists just spray a fixative over the pencil there is no chance of erasing, you'd have to cover up the sketch.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:25 PM   #145 (permalink)
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As an artist that just started working with "sketch" cards, I treated them as canvases for full paintings. I wanted to be proud of my work and wanted people to be happy to get my card in a box.
I wish all sketch artist felt the same way you do, but I can imagine it being tough to keep quality steady, especially when you have to do 150-500 sketches in a short amount of time. I guess, make time and show people what you're made of, or just do the bare minimum?

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Also, if the artists just spray a fixative over the pencil there is no chance of erasing, you'd have to cover up the sketch.
Isn't it suprising that professional sketch artists would forget to do this? If they don't care about their work, why should we?
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:01 PM   #146 (permalink)
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never seen anything sprayed with fixative that didn't yellow or start to crack over time.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:08 PM   #147 (permalink)
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i have to be honest - unless my sketch card is done in charcoal, chalk, or something similar i'd rather there not be a fixative sprayed on the surface... personal preference

that said - if a fixative is the way to go THE COMPANY should fix everything when it is received. i can't say it enough, its lousy for an artist to put something like this out there, but its THE COMPANY that is continuing to approve these cards and insert them into packs.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by webjon View Post
Certainly the design of the car is protected, as well as the the name Chevy and Nova. . . all of that is trademarked/copy protected. Additionally the colors the car are produced in are pre-approved, and obviously the car is an official Chevy Nova.

. . . why argue that point thought -- what about the comments on getting something autographed -- it's just as altered then. . .

What if I drew a ladybug on the Star Wars card. . . who cares -- I don't have a contract with anyone -- the licensee (Topps or the artist, depending on the point in the chain) has a contract that says the cards must be approved -- I don't. . . I don't have a contract with Topps or anyone else. . . If I'm drawing a ladybug it's not copyright infringement and it's no more illegal than if I painted flames on a Nova.
Chevy owns its own IP, Topps does not own the IP for Star Wars. Star Wars copyright holders license the IP for that specific product under certain conditions (hence, the approval process). You modifying the Nova doesn't interfere with a licensed property.

An autograph is not a licensed property, so there's no issue with that legally IMO.

The ladybugy is not a licensed property--same thing.

Now, if you were to draw Charlie Brown on the Star Wars card, that might be a problem.

So, that's why I was taking on that part of the scenario.

If we have any IP lawyers around here, maybe they can offer more detail. I've attended some training on the topic, but it was a very superficial review.
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Last edited by monkeymcgee; 01-25-2013 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Removed the Marvel references--not sure why I put that there with this being Topps...
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:44 PM   #149 (permalink)
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. . . I am anti altering cards. . . but I have to ask -- how is it illegal to erase a sketch card? Or even alter it?

Certainly trying to modify a card and misrepresent it is fraud. . . but as a consumer I have no contract with the company. . . Certainly artists who were contracted with the company might be able subject to some recourse if they were caught altering cards. . . but how would it be illegal for anyone else?
it becomes a crime when you try to sell the altered card
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #150 (permalink)
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it becomes a crime when you try to sell the altered card
well, the card in question is for sale... so...

there is a reason people pay more for a licensed sketch card than identical 'fan art' PSCs - what is being done is passing off 'fan art' PSCs as official licensed sketch cards
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