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Old 01-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by monkeymcgee View Post
That's a crappy post, with the usual suspects dog piling the artist.

It's pretty shitty what they are saying about artists over there. And they wonder why people are leaving in droves.

What are they going to collect when sketchcards go away? There is a very high profile SW set without sketches coming out soon. When they realize that these sell out without the sketches and they don't have to listen to the same guys calling customer service on every release bitching about sketch quality and demanding replacement cards. Or maybe the AD is tired of seeing people bitching about sketches.

It's #@#@#@#@ like this that will kill this hobby.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:14 AM   #202 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jadams View Post
That's a crappy post, with the usual suspects dog piling the artist.

It's pretty shitty what they are saying about artists over there. And they wonder why people are leaving in droves.

What are they going to collect when sketchcards go away? There is a very high profile SW set without sketches coming out soon. When they realize that these sell out without the sketches and they don't have to listen to the same guys calling customer service on every release bitching about sketch quality and demanding replacement cards. Or maybe the AD is tired of seeing people bitching about sketches.

It's #@#@#@#@ like this that will kill this hobby.
I'm not sure what you're reacting to in that link, but he was looking for AP info for Batman and that had several artists offering their APs. We don't get that kind of info posted over here, so that seemed like the best resource to point him to.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:16 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Whoops, I was talking about the "check out this eBay listing" thread.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:12 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Hi guys, I guess this will be my intro post to the non-sports section of Blowout Cards. I know I'm late in the discussion but I been reading the posts and just wanted to mention something I have not seen brought up. Not all artists who works on sketch cards are "sketch card people". By that I mean they may not be aware of the card community nor do they care. They work on sketch cards only as an assignment. And the only obligation they have is to the company that hires them. Which on contract only requires the artist to draw a sketch that needs to be approved. No more, no less. This is probably why we see some artists taking on such high volume work and produce quick sketches such as the one mentioned in this discussion. If you step back and see it from the point of view of someone NOT in the sketch card community. There is perfectly NOTHING wrong with the sketch when you consider what was contractually expected of the hiring company. Just thought I'd share a another possible perspective to this.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:37 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Incarnadine View Post
For example, all of Pop Mhan's pack inserted sketches looked something like this:



But the After Markets look like this:

Thats a pretty uncomfortable looking position.

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:41 PM   #206 (permalink)
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If I was drawing Sketch Cards for the Mars Attacks 2012 Heritage set, I would do the best job I can regardless of the payment per card. A beautiful card will command high prices and elevate the set and the artist as well. A win win situation all around.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:48 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Just wanted to say it's very cool that we have a good number of artists signing up and posting on the BO board. Please don't let any of the highly opinionated members here chase you off too quickly, I for one really appreciate each of you taking the time to post your different perspectives on the subject!
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:08 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lak Lim View Post
Hi guys, I guess this will be my intro post to the non-sports section of Blowout Cards. I know I'm late in the discussion but I been reading the posts and just wanted to mention something I have not seen brought up. Not all artists who works on sketch cards are "sketch card people". By that I mean they may not be aware of the card community nor do they care. They work on sketch cards only as an assignment. And the only obligation they have is to the company that hires them. Which on contract only requires the artist to draw a sketch that needs to be approved. No more, no less. This is probably why we see some artists taking on such high volume work and produce quick sketches such as the one mentioned in this discussion. If you step back and see it from the point of view of someone NOT in the sketch card community. There is perfectly NOTHING wrong with the sketch when you consider what was contractually expected of the hiring company. Just thought I'd share a another possible perspective to this.
Lak: That's a very fair point and it's worthwhile to consider that perspective. After some recent discussions about this, I think what you are suggesting may be the best explanation for the disconnect.

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Just wanted to say it's very cool that we have a good number of artists signing up and posting on the BO board. Please don't let any of the highly opinionated members here chase you off too quickly, I for one really appreciate each of you taking the time to post your different perspectives on the subject!
Agreed! I love hearing from the artists, even if we disagree at times. They bring a lot of very interesting information to the table and have certainly helped shape my buying and collecting habits.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:29 PM   #209 (permalink)
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I've posted my thoughts on the matter at the Scoundrel forums so I'll copy and paste that over here :]

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Originally Posted by OpticNerve
Just gonna toss in my two-cents as a sketch card artist.

I'm pretty in-between the fence when it comes to this situation and I do think that both sides have to take some blame for this situation. But... (and this will probably won't win me any favors when it comes to sketch card companies) I do think that a big chunk of the blame needs to lie with the company. Yes, they're just trying to make money, but they're making money at the expense of artists and collectors.

In a perfect world, sketch card artists who do quality work and are favored by fans and collectors should simply be paid more. Just like any other job, quality work that's in-demand SHOULD get rewarded somehow. It forces all these artists (myself included) to try and strive to do their best for each and every sketch card rather than just doing the most possible to meet some quota and deadline just to get by. It's a pretty well-known fact that sketch card artists get paid pretty horribly unless you're just constantly cranking out sketch card after sketch card and when you're doing that, the quality has to suffer in one form or another.

And I don't think that giving artists more AP cards is the solution given how hard it is for a lot of artists to sell their APs these days in this flooded market.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:40 PM   #210 (permalink)
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Personally, I am painting over several of my crappy Mars Attacks sketch cards. [I have a lot of ideas that the "official artists" couldn't have envisioned.] First up Zack G. It is difficult to understand why his feelings would be hurt that people don't value his 30 second Art 101 sketches. These sketches have nothing to with his "Artistic Identity" but were really just quickly done for money. The way I see it... I own that piece of cardboard. I paid 40$ for it so I should be able to do whatever I want with it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:29 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Personally, I am painting over several of my crappy Mars Attacks sketch cards. [I have a lot of ideas that the "official artists" couldn't have envisioned.] First up Zack G. It is difficult to understand why his feelings would be hurt that people don't value his 30 second Art 101 sketches. These sketches have nothing to with his "Artistic Identity" but were really just quickly done for money. The way I see it... I own that piece of cardboard. I paid 40$ for it so I should be able to do whatever I want with it.
LOL! I can see it now 100 of the 101 Zack G cards are tossed or painted over.
what will that 101 card be worth?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Thank you Lak and OpticNerve - both very good perspectives and vital info!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:41 AM   #213 (permalink)
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BTW, just busted two cases of MA and only got what I consider to be one -- shall we call it "effort-challenged sketch" -- from ZG - imagine that. But hey - it was a present for my $40 that I spent on the otherwise worthless box, so I should be happy with that "gift," right?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lak Lim View Post
Hi guys, I guess this will be my intro post to the non-sports section of Blowout Cards. I know I'm late in the discussion but I been reading the posts and just wanted to mention something I have not seen brought up. Not all artists who works on sketch cards are "sketch card people". By that I mean they may not be aware of the card community nor do they care. They work on sketch cards only as an assignment. And the only obligation they have is to the company that hires them. Which on contract only requires the artist to draw a sketch that needs to be approved. No more, no less. This is probably why we see some artists taking on such high volume work and produce quick sketches such as the one mentioned in this discussion. If you step back and see it from the point of view of someone NOT in the sketch card community. There is perfectly NOTHING wrong with the sketch when you consider what was contractually expected of the hiring company. Just thought I'd share a another possible perspective to this.
That is a brilliant addition to the discussion, thanks Lak. I hadn't considered that, and it makes me want to study and write about the history of sketch cards, and the creation of the specialized "sketch card artist" subculture. A large percentage of the artists who contribute to each new set are never heard from on the forums, and for all we know they are completely oblivious to the concerns of collectors. The artists who participate in the community are few and far between, for sure.

Fascinating.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:58 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Personally, I've decided to support the artists, and not the card companies. I don't like the way the card companies treat the artists or the customers. Since I collect cards for sketches only, it only makes sense to just spend my money on APs. On the other hand; I prefer sketches from official sets rather than commissioned work on the artists stock (which I still like to a degree). This is why I don't mind Rip and flippers; they help keep the cards coming.

As for artists putting the full effort into every card, I would refer to The 48 Laws of Power Law #5. "So much depends on reputation, guard it with your life". Your work is a reflection of you. I wouldn't sign with a company that would require me to sacrifice quality for quantity because it would reflect poorly on me in the long run. But to each their own.

Their are artists out there who constantly produce top notch sketches for every set they work on...those are the people it's hard to get APs from.

All that said, if you are an artist with APs available from any set, please PM me what you have available, or coming soon and I'd like to get on your commission list!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:21 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Lol forgot my main point. legal/illegal doesn't matter. Erasing, changing or painting over another artists work in down right disrespectful and wrong.
I don't want to hear the argument that it was disrespectful of them to produce what you perceive to be a bad card in the first place because we aren't in first grade where we think two wrongs DO make a right. Go buy your own stock if you want to paint, or do you due diligence and get work on an official set if you feel your art belongs there instead.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:30 AM   #217 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lak Lim View Post
Hi guys, I guess this will be my intro post to the non-sports section of Blowout Cards. I know I'm late in the discussion but I been reading the posts and just wanted to mention something I have not seen brought up. Not all artists who works on sketch cards are "sketch card people". By that I mean they may not be aware of the card community nor do they care. They work on sketch cards only as an assignment. And the only obligation they have is to the company that hires them. Which on contract only requires the artist to draw a sketch that needs to be approved. No more, no less. This is probably why we see some artists taking on such high volume work and produce quick sketches such as the one mentioned in this discussion. If you step back and see it from the point of view of someone NOT in the sketch card community. There is perfectly NOTHING wrong with the sketch when you consider what was contractually expected of the hiring company. Just thought I'd share a another possible perspective to this.
these type of artists you speak of who work on cards as an "assignment", do they do it purely for the money then? if not, they have no right to use lack of pay as an excuse as to why the quality is so low. even so, an artist producing the most basic sketches, precisely because they know the company will approve them, only end up hurting themselves. i mean, do they care about their work and how it is perceived, or is it just an "assignment"? as far as having to do quantity, i've seen sketches from an (EL) artist that were no better and sometimes worse then a (L) artist.

what can be done? companies could be more critical about what they accept. they could pay more per sketch, or instead give out more APs as an incentive for theses artist to do better quality work.

other ideas? make sure top tier sketch artists never do more than 50 sketches per set, including new artist of the same caliber.

Last edited by Ronin; 01-29-2013 at 11:42 AM. Reason: i sound like a broken record, i know
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:48 AM   #218 (permalink)
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Lol forgot my main point. legal/illegal doesn't matter. Erasing, changing or painting over another artists work in down right disrespectful and wrong.
to each their own

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I don't want to hear the argument that it was disrespectful of them to produce what you perceive to be a bad card in the first place because we aren't in first grade where we think two wrongs DO make a right.
well it's pretty dumb. i don't know how we all can't agree on that.

maybe other artist who strive to put out quality regardless of the pay or demand to produce a lot of sketches, feel offended by these sketches? who knows.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:30 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Sometimes two wrongs can lead to a right, and I still see this as a form of protest that could lead to an improvement in the quality of sketch cards in the future.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:39 PM   #220 (permalink)
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I have to say that overall, the contributions of the artists who have posted directly to this thread have impressed the heck out of me. The combination of an awareness of the market and the realities of what they are being asked to produce, along with their responsiveness to collector concerns, speaks well to this branch of the hobby.

I've only dabbled in sketches, but with the obvious exception whose opinions were re-posted from Scoundrel, the artists have really upped my interest in supporting their work (sketch and otherwise) going forward.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Sometimes two wrongs can lead to a right, and I still see this as a form of protest that could lead to an improvement in the quality of sketch cards in the future.
May I have an example of two wrong making a right??? I believe your thinking of 3 lefts making a right.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:02 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by katzky View Post
Personally, I am painting over several of my crappy Mars Attacks sketch cards. [I have a lot of ideas that the "official artists" couldn't have envisioned.] First up Zack G. It is difficult to understand why his feelings would be hurt that people don't value his 30 second Art 101 sketches. These sketches have nothing to with his "Artistic Identity" but were really just quickly done for money. The way I see it... I own that piece of cardboard. I paid 40$ for it so I should be able to do whatever I want with it.
i guess you like non official, non licensed, altered trading cards in your collection?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:06 PM   #223 (permalink)
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these type of artists you speak of who work on cards as an "assignment", do they do it purely for the money then? if not, they have no right to use lack of pay as an excuse as to why the quality is so low. even so, an artist producing the most basic sketches, precisely because they know the company will approve them, only end up hurting themselves. i mean, do they care about their work and how it is perceived, or is it just an "assignment"? as far as having to do quantity, i've seen sketches from an (EL) artist that were no better and sometimes worse then a (L) artist.

what can be done? companies could be more critical about what they accept. they could pay more per sketch, or instead give out more APs as an incentive for theses artist to do better quality work.

other ideas? make sure top tier sketch artists never do more than 50 sketches per set, including new artist of the same caliber.

and then the price goes up on the box, stop buying these products if you know there is a chance at crappy sketches. Companies can be more critical? Dont suport the companies if you dont like how they run.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:15 PM   #224 (permalink)
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May I have an example of two wrong making a right??? I believe your thinking of 3 lefts making a right.
I said two wrongs can lead to a right. They don't "make" a right, they expose the problem so it can be corrected.

In this case, it is the principle of civil disobedience:

Civil disobedience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You break the law to show how unfair things are.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:24 PM   #225 (permalink)
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I said two wrongs can lead to a right. They don't "make" a right, they expose the problem so it can be corrected.

In this case, it is the principle of civil disobedience:

Civil disobedience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You break the law to show how unfair things are.
try telling that to a judge
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