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Old 05-16-2013, 09:52 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
The saying is "keep them wanting more" not "give them more". I know this isn't the feedback thread, but I know you have read all of the complaints about the market being flooded, artists having too much on their plates, etc...
There's diminishing returns on exclusivity and, at a point, it can harm you.

If you're leaving more customers unhappy with being unable to obtain your product than those that end up happy - and if the set of customers that's actually happy changes from product to product - you're going to eventually run out of people willing to purchase your product no matter how desirable it is.

It takes a long time to build up brand loyalty, but relatively no time for someone to swear off a brand entirely due to feeling like they got burnt.

As long as production is increased at a rate that's equal to or somewhat less than the larger market demand, then there shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:56 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I'd say there is plenty of demand, what with selling 1/3 of the print run in 3 minutes.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:05 PM   #103 (permalink)
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I trust they know what they are doing with regards to the print runs. As was stated in the other thread, the other factor is they need to show a viable business plan for a licensed product and part of that would be a larger production run (I believe 1,000 packs was the quote). So they are slowly building up to that.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:06 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Was already on site refreshing till they came up. Managed to get 3 packs!.

Yup, it was less than 5 minutes for Sell Out..
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:20 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by monkeymcgee View Post
I trust they know what they are doing with regards to the print runs. As was stated in the other thread, the other factor is they need to show a viable business plan for a licensed product and part of that would be a larger production run (I believe 1,000 packs was the quote). So they are slowly building up to that.
Yep, we're slowly building towards that. Gotta remember, aside from the time researching the market before our first set, we've only been at this for about 9 months. We've had to adjust our model from let's make 500 boxes of Cryptids (we were going to start with 250!), and if we have to sit on half of them for a month while people buy them no big deal. The amount that didn't sell out in pre-orders ended up selling out 2 days after box breaks started to be posted.

We already had the print run for Space set, and since I was a dummy and had the large 4 panel letterpress printing plate cut up for insertion into packs early on, we couldn't do more.

Carnival we wanted to do a lot more, but the timing was off a bit with so many artists doing the large Marvel and Star Wars sets. And those that could join Carnival could only do a small number of sketches versus the number we were hoping for per artist. Yes, we pay more per sketch, but the prestige of being a Marvel or Star Wars artist often is more alluring. Once we get some cool licenses, we'll be able to bring some artists over from the dark side. Get it? Star Wars.

Edit: Also, fun fact... many artists had to turn down the Carnival set because the Star Wars art window was the same as ours, and they had a 100 card minimum in place. Ended up they were months late shipping Star Wars blanks to the artists, and they just started getting them as our Carnival artwork due date hit. Bad luck all around.

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Old 05-16-2013, 10:31 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Is there a date set yet on when Solarfly will be restocking their pre-orders? (Hoping for the end of next week or in 2 weeks )
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:38 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Is there a date set yet on when Solarfly will be restocking their pre-orders? (Hoping for the end of next week or in 2 weeks )
It'll be a bit further than that I think, closer to release date. They have to wait on us to give them an exact count. We've still got sketches we're waiting on from some US artists, and the international artists as well.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #108 (permalink)
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My first box break of my new Carnival,I pulled Tim Proctor bearded lady............

Haha gotcha ;-)
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:31 PM   #109 (permalink)
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It'll be a bit further than that I think, closer to release date. They have to wait on us to give them an exact count. We've still got sketches we're waiting on from some US artists, and the international artists as well.
Sweet..even better!

I'll be ready to order my case
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:37 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ViceroyCards View Post
Carnival we wanted to do a lot more, but the timing was off a bit with so many artists doing the large Marvel and Star Wars sets. And those that could join Carnival could only do a small number of sketches versus the number we were hoping for per artist. Yes, we pay more per sketch, but the prestige of being a Marvel or Star Wars artist often is more alluring. Once we get some cool licenses, we'll be able to bring some artists over from the dark side. Get it? Star Wars. ,
For those of us not cool enough for the big sets, there were also overlapping due dates with Cryptozoic's next DC set, Galan's next set, Asylum's next set (though thankfully pushed back) and various base card art for those. Lotsa juggling!
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Old 05-17-2013, 06:31 AM   #111 (permalink)
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I'd say there is plenty of demand, what with selling 1/3 of the print run in 3 minutes.
Demand isn't the problem. Its longevity. You guys want cards with much lower resale value and diluted artist rosters-- push for 1000+ sketch runs.

The artists they you guys are striving to pull aren't going to do 50 or 100 cards for these sets. They will get 1000 cards, but you guys will start bitching about your pulls because you only pulled 1 or 2 hits out of 10 instead of the 6+ hits/case that you were expecting...
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:55 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Demand isn't the problem. Its longevity. You guys want cards with much lower resale value and diluted artist rosters-- push for 1000+ sketch runs.

The artists they you guys are striving to pull aren't going to do 50 or 100 cards for these sets. They will get 1000 cards, but you guys will start bitching about your pulls because you only pulled 1 or 2 hits out of 10 instead of the 6+ hits/case that you were expecting...
Agreed. I think a 25% increase over the sketch count for Carnival is a little disturbing. The best releases (non-SW and Marvel) seem to have between 400-700 sketches. Of course that's a generalization, but it's also pretty accurate.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:58 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Demand isn't the problem. Its longevity. You guys want cards with much lower resale value and diluted artist rosters-- push for 1000+ sketch runs.

The artists they you guys are striving to pull aren't going to do 50 or 100 cards for these sets. They will get 1000 cards, but you guys will start bitching about your pulls because you only pulled 1 or 2 hits out of 10 instead of the 6+ hits/case that you were expecting...
I'm not worried about resale value, I don't sell my Viceroy sketches. And they've done an excellent job so far with their artist selection, over both Cryptids and Space! I've seen a grand total of 1 artist I wouldn't have been ecstatic to pull in my packs. The print runs are going to increase regardless; they have to for Viceroy to become a viable company that will be around for awhile. If Viceroy gradually increases the print runs like they have been doing, while at the same time keeping the quality, not only with the artists, but with the thick, letterpress card stock and magnetic holders, compared to the 20 point stock and semi-rigid sleeves other companies use, I don't see any issue with what they are doing.
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Last edited by Deathgate; 05-17-2013 at 09:02 AM. Reason: More thinking leads to more writing.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:17 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Demand isn't the problem. Its longevity. You guys want cards with much lower resale value and diluted artist rosters-- push for 1000+ sketch runs.

The artists they you guys are striving to pull aren't going to do 50 or 100 cards for these sets. They will get 1000 cards, but you guys will start bitching about your pulls because you only pulled 1 or 2 hits out of 10 instead of the 6+ hits/case that you were expecting...
Normally I'd agree, but other than the case hits in SPACE you didn't hear much from people about which artists they pulled. As long as the overall quality remains high and there are a few chase artists included, I don't think they will have much of an issue from the collectors.

As we discussed in the other thread, they are not super concerned about the dealers who buy a few cases to flip--they have enough collector demand to have that approach--so the resale issue is not as much of an issue.

It's an interesting tactic and we'll have to see how it works. It's nice to see one company at least not doing case incentives and stuff like that to encourage the big breakers. Of course, it's easy to do that when you sell out your stuff so quickly. If that wasn't happening, I'm not sure you could take that approach.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:50 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I forgot to set a reminder on my phone and apparently showed up to the party 15 minutes after sellout...hopefully I get in on next batch.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #116 (permalink)
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BO now has them up for sale!
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:24 PM   #117 (permalink)
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PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS
- Premium artist hand drawn sketch Cards on Thick Letterpress Card Stock (1 per box)
- At least 2 Additional Random Insert Cards
- Only 66 Total Cases Made Available Exclusively At Blowout Cards And one other website.

glad I got my case from the "one other website" for 30 dollars cheaper

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Old 05-17-2013, 12:35 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Good luck to everyone who will be opening this product, I look forward to seeing your breaks. But it looks like I will be sitting this one out. I was 5 minutes too late to Solarfly last night, and will pass on BO's price of $300/case. At least BO's price isn't too overly inflated, hopefully they will keep it there and not raise it for those that want to buy it.

Still looking forward to seeing what Viceroy will do for the inserts for this set, and to see what other innovations they will come up with this year. Hopefully I will be back with Cryptids 2.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #119 (permalink)
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solarfly will run its presales for Carnival in 2 waves .. 1st one done but a 2nd to come

look up in several posts above .. so not shut out yet
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:49 PM   #120 (permalink)
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solarfly will run its presales for Carnival in 2 waves .. 1st one done but a 2nd to come

look up in several posts above .. so not shut out yet
yeah I bet they did half on this first wave and half on the next wave. they probably only got 30 or so cases. if they only sold 15 cases on the first wave no wonder it sold out in minutes.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:45 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Normally I'd agree, but other than the case hits in SPACE you didn't hear much from people about which artists they pulled. As long as the overall quality remains high and there are a few chase artists included, I don't think they will have much of an issue from the collectors.
I think there are people chasing specific artists. Although it may not have been very apparent with Space, it will be VERY APPARENT with Carnival since it is a character set and not a landscape set. You know as well as I do that 'collectors' don't want to spend their money on something that is worthless. People buying 1-2 cases, even though they are collecting, want to be able to sell/trade the cards they aren't interested in keeping. You are ignoring my underlying point which is you can't increase the sketch count consistently and maintain the same level quality of art. You are not going to get 25% more cards from Hall, Glebes, Kezele, etc... They are going to come from other artists increasing their numbers by 50% to make up the difference. Talented they may be, but not the "hits" that everybody is looking for. When your odds of pulling those 'chase' artists drop in half, then it become more sensible to buy singles from dealers instead of busting a case.

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As we discussed in the other thread, they are not super concerned about the dealers who buy a few cases to flip--they have enough collector demand to have that approach--so the resale issue is not as much of an issue.
Collector demand drives dealers buying cases to flip. You can't separate the two. If the demand for one is there, then so is the demand for the other. Consider 5finity as a case study. Demand is down, in general, because the artist rosters just aren't what they once were. The 'chase' artists are only do 5-10 cards per set, and both dealers and collectors are less interested in buying direct. The number of dealers ('members') is going down every year, and sets aren't selling out in minutes like they once were. Hell, most stuff isn't even selling out in a day anymore.

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It's an interesting tactic and we'll have to see how it works. It's nice to see one company at least not doing case incentives and stuff like that to encourage the big breakers. Of course, it's easy to do that when you sell out your stuff so quickly. If that wasn't happening, I'm not sure you could take that approach.
I thought they are doing case incentives? What are the 'case extras' that have been referred to? Isn't that something extra you get for buying an entire case that you would not get if you only bought a box or two?

BO's 2x price... EXPECTED
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:50 PM   #122 (permalink)
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I want them to get big enough to do a Dr. Who set!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:52 PM   #123 (permalink)
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I think there are people chasing specific artists. Although it may not have been very apparent with Space, it will be VERY APPARENT with Carnival since it is a character set and not a landscape set. You know as well as I do that 'collectors' don't want to spend their money on something that is worthless. People buying 1-2 cases, even though they are collecting, want to be able to sell/trade the cards they aren't interested in keeping. You are ignoring my underlying point which is you can't increase the sketch count consistently and maintain the same level quality of art. You are not going to get 25% more cards from Hall, Glebes, Kezele, etc... They are going to come from other artists increasing their numbers by 50% to make up the difference. Talented they may be, but not the "hits" that everybody is looking for. When your odds of pulling those 'chase' artists drop in half, then it become more sensible to buy singles from dealers instead of busting a case.
Unless you continue adding chase artists in the same ratio you add the less popular artists. Then you keep the proportions roughly the same.


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Collector demand drives dealers buying cases to flip. You can't separate the two. If the demand for one is there, then so is the demand for the other. Consider 5finity as a case study. Demand is down, in general, because the artist rosters just aren't what they once were. The 'chase' artists are only do 5-10 cards per set, and both dealers and collectors are less interested in buying direct. The number of dealers ('members') is going down every year, and sets aren't selling out in minutes like they once were. Hell, most stuff isn't even selling out in a day anymore.
Dealers won't care if they can't reliably get more than one case. Most dealers aren't going to waste their time on one case because the margins aren't there.


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I thought they are doing case incentives? What are the 'case extras' that have been referred to? Isn't that something extra you get for buying an entire case that you would not get if you only bought a box or two?

BO's 2x price... EXPECTED
To my knowledge there isn't any case incentive. The only thing that was case-related in SPACE was you were guaranteed one sketch from a certain group of artists in each case. However, they weren't packed out separately from the packs/boxes in the case. So if you just bought loose boxes, conceivably you could pull one of those cards.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #124 (permalink)
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For what it's worth...I used to buy up 5Finity.
The reason I don't is because they use the same artists over and over and over again thus you get multiple sketches that do nothing.

Then they started a "membership" program to where you had to pay hundreds just to be able to buy packs...meaning pay the membership fee and you will have 1st shot at the new release packs. Membership fee + paying for the packs...EPIC FAIL in my book. I won't look at another 5Finity pack again!
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:13 PM   #125 (permalink)
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For what it's worth...I used to buy up 5Finity.
The reason I don't is because they use the same artists over and over and over again thus you get multiple sketches that do nothing.

Then they started a "membership" program to where you had to pay hundreds just to be able to buy packs...meaning pay the membership fee and you will have 1st shot at the new release packs. Membership fee + paying for the packs...EPIC FAIL in my book. I won't look at another 5Finity pack again!
Yeah we considered a different style of membership, but nothing with fees or anything. Just something to ensure at least 1 box was available. It'd be something like a $29.99 payment to your preferred option (paypal, card, etc), and that would cover 1 box plus any shipping as each set was released. Maybe set aside like 10 cases per set, which would allow 100 collectors per set the option to buy a box. You can skip a set if you want and not pay of course, but someone might take your spot after a while. I don't know, just one option we kicked around. Nothing where you have to pay to have a spot though, any amount paid goes straight to boxes and nothing else.

In the end, collectors usually like to buy more than 1 box of sketch based products, so while that set up might work for $250 boxes of sports products, we're not sure it would for sketch sets.
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