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Old 04-19-2013, 11:43 AM   #76 (permalink)
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No, I'm not enjoying this current topic of discussion about you. But for some reason I feel like if I explain myself properly you might take a second to think before writing something inflammatory next time. On the other hand, I am enjoying the discussion about the state of the hobby, what collectors are looking for, and what the new artists are bringing to the table.

You are welcome to start a 'Spider-Fan is a douchebag' thread if you want. I probably will chose not to comment within it, although I surely will read it to see what the people are saying about me. I bet there will be a lot of action there, especially if I direct people that actually know me to that thread. Truth be told, I'm much nicer on the internet than I am in person.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:49 AM   #77 (permalink)
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So anyone see my suggestion about the poster rack type thing for displaying comics and original art instead of hanging em all over the walls?
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #78 (permalink)
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I think where we do need to be careful is creating an environment where new collectors or people who just don't like to argue are scared off from posting their thoughts about the hobby or products, or even just their preference in art and artists.

There is a PM feature here that is sorely underused when it comes to resolving some of these beefs. Not everyone needs to see the dirty laundry.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:51 AM   #79 (permalink)
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No, I'm not enjoying this current topic of discussion about you. But for some reason I feel like if I explain myself properly you might take a second to think before writing something inflammatory next time. On the other hand, I am enjoying the discussion about the state of the hobby, what collectors are looking for, and what the new artists are bringing to the table.

You are welcome to start a 'Spider-Fan is a douchebag' thread if you want. I probably will chose not to comment within it, although I surely will read it to see what the people are saying about me. I bet there will be a lot of action there, especially if I direct people that actually know me to that thread. Truth be told, I'm much nicer on the internet than I am in person.
Fair enough. I still think you are enjoying your attempt to help me, and I do appreciate it. Too many people on these forums get swept away by the hateful insults that get slung at me and choose to pile on without ever trying to talk about it.

And as much as you would try to stay above the insults, I think you would have a difficult time trying to stay out of it if you became the same sort of target that I am.

Thanks for the discussion, I hope we can stop talking about me and start talking about cards now.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:51 AM   #80 (permalink)
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So anyone see my suggestion about the poster rack type thing for displaying comics and original art instead of hanging em all over the walls?
Yeah, I did--I really like that idea if I want to show off my collection. I'm not really "out" as a sketch collector to my friends, so I would probably keep them locked up in my portfolios
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #81 (permalink)
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So anyone see my suggestion about the poster rack type thing for displaying comics and original art instead of hanging em all over the walls?
No, but I'm interested in seeing it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I think where we do need to be careful is creating an environment where new collectors or people who just don't like to argue are scared off from posting their thoughts about the hobby or products, or even just their preference in art and artists.
Meh, if the argument keeps the thread bumping - go for it. Been a fun read so far
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:57 AM   #83 (permalink)
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I'm not really "out" as a sketch collector to my friends, so I would probably keep them locked up in my portfolios
That's one of the funniest posts I have ever seen. Awesome analogy.

I love to handle my cards in toploaders, lining them up in new combinations on the table and such.

I have been planning an actual gallery show for my collection with the collections of some of the other hobbyists in the Miami area, that will be crazy cool if I can pull it off.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Its in the pet peeves thread. I'm sure there is some enterprising young person who knows how to get something like that done. Would be strictly for serious collectors with mancaves. Such a stupid wussy term, Mancave pffft.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #85 (permalink)
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That's one of the funniest posts I have ever seen. Awesome analogy.

I love to handle my cards in toploaders, lining them up in new combinations on the table and such.

I have been planning an actual gallery show for my collection with the collections of some of the other hobbyists in the Miami area, that will be crazy cool if I can pull it off.
Damn... I was in Miami last week for work. Had a free afternoon. Would have loved to see your collection!

Somehow I totally missed that part of Monkey's post.... hilarious. I'm not in the closet, but I don't have any friends that participate in the hobby. Not even any card collectors actually. It would be great to have a person or two to go to cons with and such. I work with a bunch of PhD chemists, so I have managed to find a couple of reformed comic book collectors that enjoy looking at my sketch cards.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:21 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Sara Richard is an excellent example, thanks. Jeremy Treece too. Ironically, both of them have moved on to work on official comic books now that I think about it.

I am not really all that interested in prices and values, to tell you the truth. I like to see a wide variety of styles and flavors. With the Sara Richard values, I think we learned that a unique style with consistent quality will sell high at first and then the values will drop steadily as the market gets flooded. Adding the fact that a sizable portion of the wealthy collector base has left the hobby, and you have the drop in prices.

With Warren Martineck hired as the Art Director at Rittenhouse, we see a high level of skill and accomplishment in the cards, but also a distinct lack of experimental unique styles. I don't know how this could be changed, and I don't know if Rittenhouse would want to have a bunch of bizarre styles, but I would enjoy it if they could mix it up a bit.

Nick Leslie at Upper Deck is constantly bringing in new faces, and it is fun to see what kind of funky eye candy pops up.

Anyway, that's just my opinion and my take on the MGB set.
There's already a good selection of different art styles among sketch card artists, but it's difficult to tell from thumbnails of small cards. It's also easier to remember all of the unique artists who's artwork is appealing than the scores of artists who's cards you might not find appealing. Everyone of them is doing something different artistically.

Roy complained about the poor photos and scans, which sometimes do prevent me from buying a card. It can be difficult to see some of the subtle effects and touches that an artist may put on a card. Most of my ebay searches start with "Oh look at that red blob, is that Daredevil, Spider-man, Human Torch, Red Hulk, or Deadpool?... Wow, Omega Red - Nice!"

(...and I actually just sent off some blank sketch covers to Sara Richard)

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I fully agree on the values. I buy cards for my collection with no intent of selling them, so if the value drops it doesn't really bother me. I only mention value in terms of an indicator of collector interest. Although it doesn't go hand-in-hand, if there is very little collector interest the cards aren't going to pull a very high price.

Do you really think UD is seeking a lot of new artists necessarily for new talent or more because of the artist leaving the industry in general and UD in particular? I guess it doesn't really make a difference. Some of the newer artists, like Julius Abrera for example, are very appealling to me. However, many of the RA first time artists I've seen for MGB aren't really doing anything exciting.
Value can be a measurement of artist popularity, but overall sketch cards are pretty low on the collectable totem pole. I went to at least 10 LCS in the Bay Area and couldn't find one that had sketch cards at the store. Most people treated non-sports cards like a four letter word when I mentioned them. I don't think there's a shortage of Marvel fans out there either, just a shortage of people who are interested in small pieces of artwork.

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Its in the pet peeves thread. I'm sure there is some enterprising young person who knows how to get something like that done. Would be strictly for serious collectors with mancaves. Such a stupid wussy term, Mancave pffft.
How about a Rolodex sketch card viewer?

I commissioned some of the same artists whose cards I have to do sketch covers. I might mat and frame them together. If artwork looks valued, it looks valuable.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:25 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Damn... I was in Miami last week for work. Had a free afternoon. Would have loved to see your collection!

Somehow I totally missed that part of Monkey's post.... hilarious. I'm not in the closet, but I don't have any friends that participate in the hobby. Not even any card collectors actually. It would be great to have a person or two to go to cons with and such. I work with a bunch of PhD chemists, so I have managed to find a couple of reformed comic book collectors that enjoy looking at my sketch cards.
Dude, next time give me a shout! Our condo is like a resort, we can chill by the pool or go fishing if you want.

Most of my card collecting friends are gamers, and when the Vs. System Pro Circuit closed they went back to Magic the Gathering. I went to sketch cards instead. They are still winning money playing cards, I am now spending money ON cards!
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:33 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I don't think there's a shortage of Marvel fans out there either, just a shortage of people who are interested in small pieces of artwork.
That is well said.

There is a big community of collectors for original art pages and convention sketches, but most of them consider sketch cards too small.

Personally, the fact that a card was approved by Marvel itself, then sealed in a random pack and shipped to some random place before it was uncovered again really floats my boat. I would not be in it without official pack inserted cards as the basis of the hobby.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:39 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Did anyone else notice that Warren Martineck's 9 case incentive cards seem to be full four card sheets?



There are two on ebay now, and they don't look like they are cut. Can a dealer confirm this? Were they shipped in large envelopes or something?
Just saw Warren Martineck confirm that these are full sheets, uncut. Don't know how they were shipped, or if they have the gold seal like the uncut Hetricks.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:56 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Value can be a measurement of artist popularity, but overall sketch cards are pretty low on the collectable totem pole. I went to at least 10 LCS in the Bay Area and couldn't find one that had sketch cards at the store. Most people treated non-sports cards like a four letter word when I mentioned them. I don't think there's a shortage of Marvel fans out there either, just a shortage of people who are interested in small pieces of artwork.

How about a Rolodex sketch card viewer?

I commissioned some of the same artists whose cards I have to do sketch covers. I might mat and frame them together. If artwork looks valued, it looks valuable.
Here in NJ, non-sports are very difficult to find besides the huge releases. Our Walmarts don't carry any non-sports besides gaming cards. The last non-sports I saw in Walmart was Avengers Assemble so I'm guessing they'll have IM3. Target carries GPK, Wacky Packs, Famous Fabrics, etc... but its still all retail. The local card shops don't carry any non-sports, besides one guy that has GPK. One of the local comic book shops used to carry a bunch of non-sports but stopped due to sales. The only thing he has now is BBT (oddly enough, no more Marvel stuff).

I cut a mat to frame a larger (comic book) sized piece with 4 sketch cards around it. When I get home I'll have to post a pic. Its pretty sweet. I plan to do a couple more.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Just saw Warren Martineck confirm that these are full sheets, uncut. Don't know how they were shipped, or if they have the gold seal like the uncut Hetricks.
Those are pretty epic. The "jumping off the page" concept is working well.


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There is a big community of collectors for original art pages and convention sketches, but most of them consider sketch cards too small.
Yeah, I've been treating sketch cards like business cards. If I see one I like, I'll contact the artist to commission a larger piece. When MGB auctions start around $75-$125, I can send off a blank sketch cover commission to the same artist for that price.

Sketch card artwork has increased in quality dramatically over the years from what I've seen searching ebay. Collectors are getting great quality art for their dollar, but the average buyer is probably still saying that the cards are too small to justify the price. There's a lot more technique and colorwork involved today, but maybe sketch cards need to return to being just a inked piece of work to bring the cost down and get people in the door. Something that takes the artists less time to produce and lowers the cost of the product:

Rittenhouse Marvel Brown Bag Hobby:
- 24 packs, 4 cards per pack
- (4) inked black and white sketches per box, some with splash of 1 color.
- 1:400 odds of a full color sketch

Rittenhouse Marvel Brown Bag Retail:
- 24 packs, 4 cards per pack
- (1) inked black and white sketches per box, some with splash of 1 color.
- Chance of retail exclusive artist sketch
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:10 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I cut a mat to frame a larger (comic book) sized piece with 4 sketch cards around it. When I get home I'll have to post a pic. Its pretty sweet. I plan to do a couple more.
Sounds sweet.

Do you have a mat cutter with the bevel edge? I love those, they are one of my favorite tools in the world. As an art teacher, cutting mats is like meditation for me.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:13 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I'd love to join this thread - but it's so damn hard to find a starting point....

This isn't where I parked my car.... Not at all...
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:16 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Sounds sweet.

Do you have a mat cutter with the bevel edge? I love those, they are one of my favorite tools in the world. As an art teacher, cutting mats is like meditation for me.
I went to Michaels to get two custom mats cut to frame a comic book sketch cover I bought from Bianca Thompson on eBay when I first started collecting. When they gave me the price, I decided to by a kit on Amazon for about the same price. Taught myself. Did a bunch of poor mats at first. Ended up scrapping the kit and just keeping the push bevel cutter. I use a heavy duty steel yard stick and some clamps - works way better than the cheap kit Might invest in a better one sooner or later.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:19 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Sketch card artwork has increased in quality dramatically over the years from what I've seen searching ebay.
Try deviantart.com when you have a few hours, searching for Marvel Masterpieces or Marvel sketch cards. There were some amazing things done in the early years that are not happening anymore. Quality as a whole is better than ever, but some of the most intense talent is long gone.

Mark Irwin at Upper Deck actually had Arthur Adams, Dave Johnson, and Skottie Young doing sketch cards, for example.


Old School Big Name Art Adams Marvel Masterpieces. | The Sketchcard Saloon.

It’s true, Skottie Young did sketch cards. | The Sketchcard Saloon.

Dave Johnson Will Chew Your Heart And Spit It Out. | The Sketchcard Saloon.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Yeah, I've been treating sketch cards like business cards. If I see one I like, I'll contact the artist to commission a larger piece. When MGB auctions start around $75-$125, I can send off a blank sketch cover commission to the same artist for that price.
I do the same. But I mostly do the sketch covers at cons. I have bought some online that were not commissions. I've commissioned artists online that had covers available - haven't sent any out yet but I might gravitate towards that as I have a lot of blank covers piling up and a couple artists I'd like to commission that just don't come to the NY or Philly area EVER. I'll probably get 2 or 3 done at Wizard World Philly next month! Wahoo!!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I use a heavy duty steel yard stick and some clamps - works way better than the cheap kit Might invest in a better one sooner or later.
The good ones are pretty expensive, but oh so wonderful to work with. I am lucky, I get to spend taxpayer dollars on top shelf mat cutters.

Life is good.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #98 (permalink)
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The good ones are pretty expensive
Exactly - And I'd rather put that money towards sketch cards and covers. Its the same annoying thing about the big shows - NY Comic Con and Wizard World Philly. The cost of entry comes right out of my budget for the show. But there are a ton of small cons in the Philly area that are anywhere from free to $20 to get into and there is a good amount of talent that comes down from NYCC to sell their goods there. Con season is just starting for the year so my fun money should be drained soon!

And to bring this back to the topic at hand... Con season starting is another reason I'm limiting my spending on this set. I had plenty to spend on MBA because there were no real cons in my area from Dec-Mar!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:30 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I happen to do Sketch covers as well. I have a few being sold by a guy who does sketch OPP's of CGC books. I did 10 books and I believe he sold 4. I'll be doing my Artcast around Noon central time today. Have to finish two sketch covers One batman another is a Marvel cover I'm doing for a friend who was able to get me a stack of variants as I have no comics shop in my little one horse town. The batman is inked just needs colors. I may skip the friends book as I have an Idea for the Wolverine Cover i have. My prices are $75 to 100. I don't ask for more than 100 unless the book has a lot on it artwise.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:31 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I have the beveled Mat cutter somewhere around here. haven't used it in donkeys ears.
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