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Old 04-20-2013, 02:17 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Maybe check through the Marvel Premier threads as people had to figure out how to display those hinged cards.
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Old 04-20-2013, 02:21 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Hey guys, sorry this may seem like a stupid question, but would any of you know where I could find a case to display these new 2-card puzzles? I bought one by William Reyes and I don't want to put the cards in separate holders so I was wondering if there is anything out there that will allow me to display the cards as one piece. Thanks guys and I am digging the cards everyone is picking up!!
You have a couple of options...

Both BCW & UltraPro make a version of this screwdown which I hate for puzzles because of the big black space between cards. Amazon.com: Ultra Pro UPSCR2CD Screwdown - Black & Clear Frame - Double Card Black Holder: Sports & Outdoors

I think they also both make a version of this. Positive - You can have the two pieces right up against each other. Negative - No recessed spot for the cards. These also work nicely for displaying RA AP cards. Amazon.com: Ultra-Pro 4X6 Screwdown (Quantity of 25): Sports & Outdoors

My LCS carries this. I really like it. It is recessed and there is just a 1/8 inch gap between cards. The only real negative is that the corners aren't cut out. Amazon.com: 4 Screw Acrylic Double Trading Card Holder 1/4" Thick: Sports & Outdoors

If you want something thinner you could try putting them together in a 5x7 toploader.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Ultrapro has this.
http://www.ultrapro.com/product_list.php?cPath=57_43

Last edited by justice41; 04-20-2013 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Thanks guys for the responses and ideas! I will take a look at each and then see which one really shows off the awesome detail. Thanks again!
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:42 PM   #130 (permalink)
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I really like this one by Meghan Hetrick: Marvel Greatest Battles x Men Sketch Wolverine Logan Sabretooth Meghan Hetrick | eBay
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:46 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Just wondering..

This this guy bought 6 Case Marvel Greatest Battle Break ..

I'm not sure how much that ran him, but what kind of return do you think one might get after purchasing that much of this product? Would you say there is even a chance you could profit? I'm only asking because I had wanted to pick up a couple cases..

I hate to sound like a cynical douch bag, but is it just me or do most of these sketches look lower in quality then previous Rittenhouse releases? I mean the set itself is lacking on quite a few big names. What gives Rittenhouse??

Looks like people are getting gypped.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:58 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Just wondering..

This this guy bought 6 Case Marvel Greatest Battle Break ..

I'm not sure how much that ran him, but what kind of return do you think one might get after purchasing that much of this product? Would you say there is even a chance you could profit? I'm only asking because I had wanted to pick up a couple cases..

I hate to sound like a cynical douch bag, but is it just me or do most of these sketches look lower in quality then previous Rittenhouse releases? I mean the set itself is lacking on quite a few big names. What gives Rittenhouse??

Looks like people are getting gypped.
As Hall & Oates might say, "I wouldn't if I were you..."

I think someone summed it up well (can't remember if it was here or Scoundrel) by saying the high-end is a little weak (in terms of number of artists), but there's a really healthy middle-end. I haven't seen many bad cards, which I think is actually better than Bronze Age. However, just because of the general card market, sales don't seem so hot on resale.

I think if this had come out last year, it would be doing a lot better.

I have some quibbles with the sketches and the current asking prices, but I wouldn't say the quality is a a step down from previous products that I've followed.

I think this will be a nice way to pick up some good work for cheap down the road, but in terms of flipping I'd pass right now.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:58 PM   #133 (permalink)
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First this, now GoT S2.

*shrug*

Are people here delusional, or am I just crazy?
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:29 AM   #134 (permalink)
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As Hall & Oates might say, "I wouldn't if I were you..."

I think someone summed it up well (can't remember if it was here or Scoundrel) by saying the high-end is a little weak (in terms of number of artists), but there's a really healthy middle-end. I haven't seen many bad cards, which I think is actually better than Bronze Age. However, just because of the general card market, sales don't seem so hot on resale.

I think if this had come out last year, it would be doing a lot better.

I have some quibbles with the sketches and the current asking prices, but I wouldn't say the quality is a a step down from previous products that I've followed.

I think this will be a nice way to pick up some good work for cheap down the road, but in terms of flipping I'd pass right now.
Not to mention, what these will do to the market of single sketches. I kind of wish this would blow over and we could all pretend this never happened. I think we all have some decent singles that wouldn't fetch much now if we wanted to sell em, not just due to these 2-card sketch puzzles, but also to over saturation of certain artists and from that, lower quality sketches. I know a few people who have taken huge loses.

These companies and especially Rittenhouse are jaming this crap down our throats. With release after release. They're profiting. While we're being played like fools. I don't know what their play is. Maybe the company believes it's only got so many years left for these comic releases, so they want to milk the cow dry? Who knows.

Artist are allowing themselves to be exploited. By this I'm of course referring to great artists who work on almost every release. Also those who push out quantity. All along while being paid next to nothing. Answer me this, are they helping to get their name out there? Sure, but at what cost? Because of this over saturation, These artists sketches are now worth half, maybe less, than what they were before. I'm not just talking normal sketch depreciation after a release.

Maybe we are just experiencing the back end of a phase?

Last edited by Ronin; 04-21-2013 at 12:36 AM. Reason: ಠ_ರೃ
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:27 AM   #135 (permalink)
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This this guy bought 6 Case Marvel Greatest Battle Break ..

I'm not sure how much that ran him, but what kind of return do you think one might get after purchasing that much of this product? Would you say there is even a chance you could profit? I'm only asking because I had wanted to pick up a couple cases..
Hard to say how well he did when that's only a selection of the sketches he pulled and at least for this release there's also some relatively valuable non-sketch chase such as the gold parallels so they should be considered as part of the case cost.

To be blunt though it's been a theme with Rittenhouse Marvel releases, you're probably going to lose money on the cost of the case unless you get that 1 big hit which covers half the case cost (traditionally Acar, Glebe, Hetrick, Perna etc) or a very large number of cases. If you want some high quality sketches the best way to obtain them is pay for them directly as you can quite easily end up with a case of average sketches which probably aren't what you're looking for.

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I hate to sound like a cynical douch bag, but is it just me or do most of these sketches look lower in quality then previous Rittenhouse releases? I mean the set itself is lacking on quite a few big names. What gives Rittenhouse??
Quality wise it seemed fine to me but the real problem is the lack of stand out items, there's plenty of artists I like that do consistent high quality pieces such as Tan and Strebb (to name a few) but the market has been over saturated with their work so prices keep going down because there aren't enough collectors to drive demand.

To illustrate my point, off the top of my head I think you would have paid about $250 for a Spider-man archives or X-men archives Tan sketch but you can easily find a Tan from Bronze age for $150 (or even less when they were more abundant).

I feel I should also mention this is made worse when they take one of the hottest artists and make her work an incentive for this set. A good idea to encourage dealers but yet another thing that would discourage a savvy collector from busting boxes.

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Looks like people are getting gypped.
With all due respect, Rittenhouse has been putting out the same product for years and it's not like they tricked anyone into buying this product.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:47 AM   #136 (permalink)
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My Card prices have either gone up a bit or remained the same so good for me. Rittenhouse only puts out 2 sketch related products a years so I don't get the over saturation thing. Upperdeck is flooding the market with 3-4 marvel sets a year. And the companies aren't losing artists like Hetrick or Acar the artists have done it themselves due to wanting to do other things. Ya'll need to have some perspective.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:59 AM   #137 (permalink)
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To answer your question .. This is how I broke it down.

I paid $1020 a case. Not as cheap as buying direct but same as buying from Blowout I think.

This is what I have sold items for

12gold cards at an average of $15 each - $180
1 Master set minus case topper -$110
11 Base set at $4 - $44

That's $334 which means the 12 sketches would cost on average $57.

I think that's a great price per sketch since I was hitting 2-3 hi end sketches per case.

Don't think I am going to make huge money but I do need to buy a certain cases from my guy so I can have my allocation coming. Like with everything else, there are breaks I make huge in and then some that are dogs. I think this was average

I also break huge amounts of cases of sports cards. Unless you hit something huge, your ROI sometimes is less than 50%.

So from ROI perspective, I don't think I ll do bad.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:15 PM   #138 (permalink)
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My Card prices have either gone up a bit or remained the same so good for me. Rittenhouse only puts out 2 sketch related products a years so I don't get the over saturation thing. Upperdeck is flooding the market with 3-4 marvel sets a year.
You're not making a fair comparison, firstly Rittenhouse releases have until recently been 8000 sketches just from boxes (archive boxes, replacements are all extra) while most of the Upperdeck releases are not a guaranteed sketch per box. In other words, the complaint isn't that they're putting out too many sets, the complaint is they're putting out too many sketches so demand/price drop.

Secondly your cards do not represent the market, that's not to say it proves either point but you can't just look at one artist and conclude everything's peachy anymore than I can conclude from the first week of sales being under 300 completed auctions means the set is utterly doomed.

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And the companies aren't losing artists like Hetrick or Acar the artists have done it themselves due to wanting to do other things. Ya'll need to have some perspective.
Let's not argue over semantics, the point is certain artists have high prices attached to their names and their absence makes a product far less desirable both for collectors and dealers. They don't need those names to make a desirable product but that's been one pillar of their strategy to date, take it away and they need to focus elsewhere to keep the value intact, surely you can see that?
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Let's not argue over semantics, the point is certain artists have high prices attached to their names and their absence makes a product far less desirable both for collectors and dealers. They don't need those names to make a desirable product but that's been one pillar of their strategy to date, take it away and they need to focus elsewhere to keep the value intact, surely you can see that?
If they don't leave the market they will not continue to have high prices attached to their names. NAR would not be able to sell his AP cards for $1200 each if he did 50 cards for every Rittenhouse Release. Yes the talent is a huge factor in the price associated with a name, but it is not the only factor. The huge drop in prices for Acar, Hall, and Tan (just a few examples) support that.

Rittenhouse isn't going to change their business model as long as cases are selling out before the product releases. If the big dealers continue to see poor ROI and stop buying then maybe we will see a change.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:50 PM   #140 (permalink)
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If they don't leave the market they will not continue to have high prices attached to their names. NAR would not be able to sell his AP cards for $1200 each if he did 50 cards for every Rittenhouse Release. Yes the talent is a huge factor in the price associated with a name, but it is not the only factor. The huge drop in prices for Acar, Hall, and Tan (just a few examples) support that.

Rittenhouse isn't going to change their business model as long as cases are selling out before the product releases. If the big dealers continue to see poor ROI and stop buying then maybe we will see a change.
While I agree for the most part they don't have to leave the market but they can't produce hundreds of sketches per set and expect that to have no impact either, using Nar as example one of the reasons his cards are sought after is they've (somewhat) always been scarce and they can remain that way even if he participates in future sets by keeping the numbers very small (as was done for Marvel Premier/Bombshells etc).

No idea if that's of interest to either artists or the companies paying them but it doesn't always have to end with the artist not looking back.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:47 PM   #141 (permalink)
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While I think sale prices on the sketches from this set have been worse than expected, overall I think the return on this set is no worse than any other Rittenhouse set. As was pointed out above, you do get other things in addition to the sketches, and the addition of the gold parallels was a positive.

I also think the quality of the sketches is no different than past Rittenhouse sets. BUT, I think not as many stand out because it's somewhat apparent that many of the artists are not too good at drawing fight scenes. I guess it didn't matter when they were only drawing a single character, many from the waist up. But for this set that forces them to use at least 2 characters, the result was that some just have 2 characters posing separately and not interacting, and some where they are just facing off. At least the facing off ones I maybe understand, because that's right before the battle. Then you have some where the artist did try to have the characters battling, but you have things like punches thrown in the wrong direction, or both characters facing a point to the bottom middle of the card instead of each other. I'm not sure if part of that was due to the direction Rittenhouse gave (kinda looks like they wanted both characters' faces or fronts shown, while a lot of the cards would have made more sense showing one of the characters from the side/back).

Going back to prices, I think a lot of people expected them to sell for twice a regular single card, and think that the set must be doomed because most aren't selling for anywhere close to that. But like Monkeymcgee said, maybe a more realistic multiplier would have been 1.5, since the boxes didn't cost twice as much as other sets.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:51 PM   #142 (permalink)
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While I agree for the most part they don't have to leave the market but they can't produce hundreds of sketches per set and expect that to have no impact either, using Nar as example one of the reasons his cards are sought after is they've (somewhat) always been scarce and they can remain that way even if he participates in future sets by keeping the numbers very small (as was done for Marvel Premier/Bombshells etc).

No idea if that's of interest to either artists or the companies paying them but it doesn't always have to end with the artist not looking back.
I used to be a high school teacher. Eventually I was sick of dealing with #@#@#@#@ from parents, administration, and students. So I left teaching. I assume the same would apply to sketch card artists. Eventually getting #@#@#@#@ from the collectors, dealers, and companies adds up. Not everybody can handle it, or wants to. Some people WANT to move on. Artists are creative types. Doing the same thing probably gets very boring for them after a while.

And FYI - NAR made a killing on Marvel Premier. He did one sketch card (redemption) and the artwork for the Emotions booklets. He had the originals of some of the emotions booklets to sell (at about $1500 each) plus an awful lot of AP cards that he sold at $1200 each. He only introduced 1 new sketch card to the world and was given many AP to sell for personal profit. He got an offer he could not refuse.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:24 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I had made it a point on a few of my Arcasts that this set would weed out the not so artistic types or creative types. Lots of poses with characters punching past each other. I think a few took the directions a bit too literal of wanting the cards to be self contained when cut down. This caused a lot of side by side or weird proportions or characters facing front all the time no matter what they were doing.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:35 PM   #144 (permalink)
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I think a few took the directions a bit too literal of wanting the cards to be self contained when cut down.
I think instructing the artists to do that really negatively impacted the set. RA obviously does not understand the sketch card collector. These cards are never going to be separated. We would be much happier with a good fight scene where the cards don't stand alone than two nice standalone cards that don't make a good scene.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:53 PM   #145 (permalink)
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When I got the ask to be on the set and heard we were getting double cards, i was like alright. Big huge battles. Buildings toppled, stuff blowing up. Cut or uncut the cards are puzzles and should never be considered two cards. I think the UD hinged idea was a better way to go.
Oh yeah and take a look at Sam Agro's cards, That was what we were sent as samples of how the cards should be. As you can see a lot took that to be the template. I dismissed out of hand that lame layout and did my own thing anyways while still keeping to the limits.

Last edited by justice41; 04-21-2013 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:09 PM   #146 (permalink)
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If anyone gets a nice Sunday night steal, post it up!

I've been outbid on all the ones I was trying to sneak a low price on

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I think instructing the artists to do that really negatively impacted the set. RA obviously does not understand the sketch card collector. These cards are never going to be separated. We would be much happier with a good fight scene where the cards don't stand alone than two nice standalone cards that don't make a good scene.
Yeah, if this is the reason we're seeing so few scenes with good action, then that was a colossal fail on RA's part.

They really need to loosen the reins a bit on the artists. I understand some things may be coming from Marvel, but if the art on the sketch cards is not interesting why should we be interested in buying them?
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:23 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Marvel has no say in what we do only that we represent the characters properly and by guidelines
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #148 (permalink)
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If anyone gets a nice Sunday night steal, post it up!
Well I've narrowed my list of Spider-Man v Venom cards down to 8. Can't decide 1 I want to go after. Think I might wait a couple more days to see if somebody helps make my decision easier for me
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:01 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Well I've narrowed my list of Spider-Man v Venom cards down to 8. Can't decide 1 I want to go after. Think I might wait a couple more days to see if somebody helps make my decision easier for me
Looks like things may be getting worse for you based on the listings that have gone up tonight
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:11 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Link to my box break if anyone is interested:

2012 Marvels Greatest Battles Box Break
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