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Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Oh I like the style, i just don't care for this particular card(s). The action is not there and the figures aren't really doing anything. Plus all the jagged debris just looks like a broken puzzle.
This one from the same artist is more what i would like.

Last edited by justice41; 04-25-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:39 AM   #202 (permalink)
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I think the Hulk looks pretty cool, but the style definitely doesn't work for The Thing. It makes him look like a mutated tiger.
But that is the beauty of it. Adam Cline is not afraid to take risks, to be experimental, to think outside the box.

Hence the high prices on his work.

I hope Rittenhouse can find some more artists who are not stuck trying to recreate traditional poses and proportions, this set shows how much the hobby needs a breath of fresh air.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rian Fike View Post
I hope Rittenhouse can find some more artists who are not stuck trying to recreate traditional poses and proportions, this set shows how much the hobby needs a breath of fresh air.
Heh. I disagree. IMO, they need more people who KNOW traditional proportions and can pull off traditional poses. Knowing the rules before you break them and all that. If you can only even pretend to know anatomy from right angles, you have some work to do, regardless of how big you can draw boobs, hands or eyes. For artists who have the foundation, there are 360 available degrees of rotation. That's where Meghan pops.

And before it gets said - Adam Cline, Katie Cook, Jeremy Treece etc. have consistent representations of anatomy in their style, they don't hide behind it as an excuse. Elbows bend like elbows whether they're pointy or curvy. The cards y'all are posting as good are actually fairly traditional poses, they're just funky angles. The cards you're posting as bad aren't even pulling off traditional action poses (any modicum of movement) and basic anatomy.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #204 (permalink)
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As good an artist this guy is I hate the fact all his artwork is copied. Hell he even swiped on of my pieces from Deviantart which i got on his case about. It's one thing to do a few homages but he does entire sets of swiped artwork.
Wow.





At what point does an homage become plagiarism? I can see using something for reference and doing your own thing with it, but this is damned near verbatim.

I personally don't get why someone would want to copy something another artist has already done. I used to do that, but I was 10.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #205 (permalink)
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But that is the beauty of it. Adam Cline is not afraid to take risks, to be experimental, to think outside the box.

Hence the high prices on his work.

I hope Rittenhouse can find some more artists who are not stuck trying to recreate traditional poses and proportions, this set shows how much the hobby needs a breath of fresh air.
I like Adam Cline's work a lot, but I just think The Thing could have been done better while maintaining the style on this particular card. There is also something off putting with the way The Hulk's purple shorts go over his knee. Just my 2 cents
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #206 (permalink)
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I personally don't get why someone would want to copy something another artist has already done.
And before someone points out that I copied existing artwork for my Mars Attacks cards, that is different. It was used as parody and a callback. The Sub-Mariner/Venom sketch is neither.

It is a shame, because the work is very nice.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:21 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Heh. I disagree. IMO, they need more people who KNOW traditional proportions and can pull off traditional poses. Knowing the rules before you break them and all that. If you can only even pretend to know anatomy from right angles, you have some work to do, regardless of how big you can draw boobs, hands or eyes. For artists who have the foundation, there are 360 available degrees of rotation. That's where Meghan pops.

And before it gets said - Adam Cline, Katie Cook, Jeremy Treece etc. have consistent representations of anatomy in their style, they don't hide behind it as an excuse. Elbows bend like elbows whether they're pointy or curvy. The cards y'all are posting as good are actually fairly traditional poses, they're just funky angles. The cards you're posting as bad aren't even pulling off traditional action poses (any modicum of movement) and basic anatomy.
That is absolutely correct, and I agree with you 100%. Cline, Cook, and Treece are all obviously full of skill and simply choose to be non-traditional.

I would love to see more artists like that, rather than the same old thing done by someone else.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:22 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Wow.





At what point does an homage become plagiarism? I can see using something for reference and doing your own thing with it, but this is damned near verbatim.

I personally don't get why someone would want to copy something another artist has already done. I used to do that, but I was 10.
Wow, that's bad. I would be embarrassed.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:22 PM   #209 (permalink)
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And before someone points out that I copied existing artwork for my Mars Attacks cards, that is different. It was used as parody and a callback. The Sub-Mariner/Venom sketch is neither.

It is a shame, because the work is very nice.
I don't think anyone would call you out for that.

I ran into the same thing with 2 of my Batman cards and it ruined them for me. I'm sorry in advance if Mark has the same experience with his purchase because as a collector it royally sucks to find out a card you spent good money on is a copy of another work.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:28 PM   #210 (permalink)
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That is absolutely correct, and I agree with you 100%. Cline, Cook, and Treece are all obviously full of skill and simply choose to be non-traditional.

I would love to see more artists like that, rather than the same old thing done by someone else.
Put that way I'd agree more - they should be looking for more skilled artists. Because for those with skill, style comes after basics not as an alternative to them.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ashelton View Post
Put that way I'd agree more - they should be looking for more skilled artists. Because for those with skill, style comes after basics not as an alternative to them.
Indeed. And then we come back to the core of the problem. A skilled artist with a unique alternative style will almost always have other more profitable ways to use their talents.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:41 PM   #212 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone would call you out for that.

I ran into the same thing with 2 of my Batman cards and it ruined them for me. I'm sorry in advance if Mark has the same experience with his purchase because as a collector it royally sucks to find out a card you spent good money on is a copy of another work.
Ugh, it sucks to find out your card is a copy of another's work...
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:44 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Ugh, it sucks to find out your card is a copy of another's work...
Yeah, that's what happened to me. No attribution and they were pretty much exact copies (one of an Acar work and one from a DC paperback cover).

I notified Cryptozoic, but just got a canned response. I guess I'll have to see if that artist does any more work for them, though.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:44 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Ugh, it sucks to find out your card is a copy of another's work...
Sorry, Mark. When I saw Cover's comment it made me look it up.

By the way, who is the artist?
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:50 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Sorry, Mark. When I saw Cover's comment it made me look it up.

By the way, who is the artist?
The artist is Eli Rutten.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:56 PM   #216 (permalink)
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The artist is Eli Rutten.
He always does homages like this. It says "After..." although I can't read the name.

That is usually considered okay.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:58 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Yeah, that's what happened to me. No attribution and they were pretty much exact copies (one of an Acar work and one from a DC paperback cover).

I notified Cryptozoic, but just got a canned response. I guess I'll have to see if that artist does any more work for them, though.
They shouldn't, or at the very least, they should be getting a stern warning. Don't know about Rittenhouse policies, but Cryptozoic's artist contract specifically forbids the practice. For sure it was in the Batman contract.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #218 (permalink)
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They shouldn't, or at the very least, they should be getting a stern warning. Don't know about Rittenhouse policies, but Cryptozoic's artist contract specifically forbids the practice. For sure it was in the Batman contract.
Homages have always been considered fair game if the original artist is credited, like Rutten did on this card.

Recreating a famous comic book cover, for example, is seen as homage rather than plagarism.

Personally, I always steer clear of those cards, but some contracts actually allow it if it says "After..." .
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rian Fike View Post
Homages have always been considered fair game if the original artist is credited, like Rutten did on this card.

Recreating a famous comic book cover, for example, is seen as homage rather than plagarism.

Personally, I always steer clear of those cards, but some contracts actually allow it if it says "After..." .
In the case I'm talking about, there was no attribution. It was a straight-up rip.

Here's one of the two examples:



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Old 04-25-2013, 01:22 PM   #220 (permalink)
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In the case I'm talking about, there was no attribution. It was a straight-up rip.
Yes, I remember those and that was different. Eli Rutten does these for every set.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:29 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Yes, I remember those and that was different. Eli Rutten does these for every set.
Right, but I think Amber was saying the contracts forbid doing non-attributed homages. Which makes sense, since that type of thing could cause legal problems for the license holder.

And I don't mind "After" cards that are inspired by another work--in fact several of my commissions have been just that. However, a straight-up copy is not "inspired by".
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:33 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Homages have always been considered fair game if the original artist is credited, like Rutten did on this card.

Recreating a famous comic book cover, for example, is seen as homage rather than plagarism.

Personally, I always steer clear of those cards, but some contracts actually allow it if it says "After..." .
Nope. Not for Cryptozoic DC sets so far. No homages, no attributions, no "after", no rips, no nothing based on existing artwork period (possibly barring spoofs, parodies and whatnot, I dunno, that part wasn't laid out).
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:33 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Wow.





At what point does an homage become plagiarism? I can see using something for reference and doing your own thing with it, but this is damned near verbatim.

I personally don't get why someone would want to copy something another artist has already done. I used to do that, but I was 10.
I don't mind it so much, a lot of young artists have always wanted to copy their fave artist and these cards do offer that chance. I have done homages and recreations, in fact on some sets we are encouraged to do so like on Bronze Age. I also like copying paintings as it gives me a little insight on the process even if it's just a small card sized painting. But to do an entire set based on copied artwork is just not right.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:44 PM   #224 (permalink)
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The artist is Eli Rutten.
The original artist is Marko Djurdjevic. Marko does all his work digital. He's really good, did a lot of video game design before going to Marvel. Don't feel bad about the painting, it's well done. My comment was strictly about Rutten and a few others who only do recreations swipes and homages.
Yeah all Cryptozoic card sets are no swipes homages recreations no taking other companies designs and using them for your cards, kinda restrictions yet i've seen plenty of swipes and recreations in almost every set from Crypt except TWD tv show sets as those are for the most just copied photos or screen grabs.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:02 PM   #225 (permalink)
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I don't mind it so much, a lot of young artists have always wanted to copy their fave artist and these cards do offer that chance. I have done homages and recreations, in fact on some sets we are encouraged to do so like on Bronze Age. I also like copying paintings as it gives me a little insight on the process even if it's just a small card sized painting. But to do an entire set based on copied artwork is just not right.
You can copy your favorite artists to learn about the process all day, but why do it on a set? You said you've done homages, but were they verbatim - or did you take what was already there and make it your own?

How is it any different to do 1 or 100?
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