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Old 05-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2013 Marvel Fleer Retro Trading Cards

Sounds like it could be pretty hot. Here is the write-up from Cardboard Connection:

The Fleer and Marvel brands have a rich history together. At one point, they were part of the same company. While the two have gone in different directions over the last 15 years, they are reunited for 2013 Marvel Fleer Retro. The release offers several familiar designs, both with comic card collectors and sports fans.

2013 Marvel Fleer Retro comes with a pack configuration similar to those used in basketball, baseball, football and hockey. Each hobby box has two ten-pack mini boxes. Each pack has five cards.

The 2013 Marvel Fleer Retro base set has 60 cards. It highlights both the heroes and the villains of the Marvel Universe. Similar to 2012 Upper Deck Marvel Premier, the base set has a sketch card variation that's inserted one per box. There is also a base set autograph parallel that falls one per mini box.

Bringing the Retro are several basic inserts based on Marvel base sets from the early 1990s. 1990 Impel Marvel Universe, 1991 Impel Marvel Universe and 1992 Marvel Universe III all appear. Give the size of the industry at the time, these are some of the most recognizable Marvel trading card sets of all-time. Other basic inserts borrow from the 1994 Fleer Ultra and 1995 Marvel Metal sets. These inserts fall one per pack. The Marvel Universe cards also have rare autographed versions.

Some of the hottest Fleer Retro cards have been the Precious Metal Gems. Collectors now have a chance to chase PMGs of Spider-Man and the Avengers. Precious Metal Gems combine to fall one per hobby box. Red PMGs are numbered to 100. Blue cards are numbered to 50. Green PMGs are once again the rarest, limited to 10 copies each.

2013 Marvel Fleer Retro also has a long list of 1990s inserts that combine to fall two per mini box. While some should be familiar with those that collected Marvel cards during Fleer/SkyBox days, some are being transferred over from sports cards. Here's a list of what's included:
  • Holograms 1:80 packs
  • Intimidation Nation 1:30 packs
  • Jambalaya 1:200 packs
  • Metal Hardware 1:60 packs
  • Metal Universe Ti-22 1:40 packs
  • Power Blast 1:33 packs
  • Quick Strike 1:40 Packs
  • Ultra Stars 1:40 packs

Every 2013 Marvel Fleer Retro mini box also has a pair of stickers. In addition, collectors can find additional sketch cards (1:44 packs) and Printing Plates.

Estimated Release Date: 8/15/13
Product Configuration: 20 packs per box, 5 cards per pack
Price Point: High-End Entertainment Card
Target Audience: Comic Card Collectors, Marvel Fans, Nostalgic Card Collectors

2013 Marvel Fleer Retro Box Break
  • 1 Sketch Card
  • 2 Autographs
  • 4 Inserts
  • 4 Stickers
  • 1 Precious Metal Gems Card
  • 20 Retro Cards
  • 100 Total Cards

Pack Configuration
  • 5 cards per pack
  • 10 packs per mini-box
  • 2 mini-boxes (20 packs) per hobby box

Base Set (60 Cards, 3-4 per pack)
Randomly inserted printing plates

Base Sketch Cards (1:20 packs, 1 per hobby box)

Base Autographs (1:10 Packs, 2 per hobby box)


1990 Impel Marketing Design (1:6 packs)
Randomly inserted autographed cards (1:576 packs)

1991 Impel Marketing Design (1:7.5 packs)
Randomly inserted autographed cards (1:720 packs)

1992 Impel Marketing Design (1:10 packs)
Randomly inserted autographed cards (1:960 packs)

Holograms (1:80 packs)

Intimidation Nation (1:30 packs)


Jambalaya (1:200 packs)


Metal (3.5:10 packs)


Metal Hardware (1:60 packs)

Metal Universe Ti-22 (1:40 packs)

Metal Universe S5 Power Blast (1:33 packs)

Power Blast (1:30 packs)

Precious Metal Gems Red (1 per box, numbered #/100)


Precious Metal Gems Blue (numbered #/50)


Precious Metal Gems Green (numbered #/10)


Quick Strike (1:40 packs)

Sketch Cards (1:44 packs)

Ultra Stars (1:40 packs)


Ultra X-Men (1:4 packs)

I will add more information about signers, sketch card artists, and insert sets as we dig it up.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This product sounds amazing! Those inserts definitely bring back a lot of memories from my sport card collecting days. Wonder what the cost per box will look like.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's going to cost $200/box, so similar to Marvel Premier. While a retro set sounds cool, I just don't get it as a high end product.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aggie4ever View Post
It's going to cost $200/box, so similar to Marvel Premier. While a retro set sounds cool, I just don't get it as a high end product.
That does seem really high. I enjoy the nostalgic feel to it, but not at 200.00 / box lol.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Id get some but not at that price.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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SMH at this. Upper Deck tricked the sports card collectors into thinking this was a super high end product. Funny how the non sports collectors are smarter and wont pay $200 for this.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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$100 box, yes please. $200, see ya.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Lots of great ideas here, but I agree the price is too steep.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is going to sell, and it's going to sell WELL, at least in pre-orders. If there was ever a product designed to pull in speculators from the sports card market, this is that product. And the majority of them will lose their shirts trying to recoup what they spend on it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'll probably pick up a 20 pack box at $200... maybe 2. I thought Premier was overpriced for what you were getting, but I think this is a better deal. I would like to see more previews and details though.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I will definitely keep an eye out on eBay for when the sketches and autos hit. And for anyone here that does buy it, I have my fingers crossed for you to get PMG Greens!
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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UGGGGH! UD needs to realize that the only market that was really right for Retro was basketball. The vast majority of the "big hits" have absolutely no relivance to Marvel collectors. Now if they did Double Impact, HoloFlash, Canvas or Mirage cards THEN you would have RETRO.
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Old 05-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah I agree it seems like a stupid idea to take inserts from the sports world. I have no idea what is so special about a Jambalya besides that it is 1:200 packs. I'll probably start with a box and see how I like it. $200 for probably a full base set, sketch, 2 autos, precious gems card, and a handful of other inserts doesn't sound like a bad price. Of course, it somewhat depends on the signers and artists. If they are able to get NAR!, Jusko, etc. to do a couple sketch cards each for this set, like they did for Premier, it will take off.

I'm surprised to see so many people bah'ing the set over price considering how everybody on this forum seemed very positive about Premier, where $200 got you 2 base cards, 2 sketches, and an insert. Personally, I only really liked the base sketches. If I wanted something larger I'd rather have a traditional 'puzzle' or some other larger commission (like a 9x12 or a comic book cover).

I'm a collector so resale value isn't really taken into consideration unless I think the set will tank and that I could pick up sealed boxes at a much better price after a couple of months. However, we all know there are a good number of hardcore marvel collectors out there that are going to be willing to spend big bucks to complete sketch base sets, master sets, etc... so I think the 'rip-n-flip' value will be there for dealers, early on at least.

Revisit Premier - those guys who had their stuff up the first two weeks made out like bandits! A month later everything was selling for half of what it was. Six months later (NOW) people are paying good money for sealed packs, but not really for singles unless they are really special.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Cool, but yeah too high.

Three-Seven panel sketch card + Base sketch + "comic" inserts IS worth ~$175 but this no way... "comic" inserts and a single sketch for ~$200?! Seriously, what are they smoking.

I might crack a box for fun but that's it...

Last edited by BHotz; 05-26-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHotz View Post
Cool, but yeah too high.

Three-Seven panel sketch card + Base sketch + "comic" inserts IS worth ~$175 but this no way... "comic" inserts and a single sketch for ~$200?! Seriously, what are they smoking.

I might crack a box for fun but that's it...
I think that is a very 'sketch collector' attitude, verses an all around 'non-sports' or 'comic' collector attitude. Personally, I hated those folded sketch cards and had no interest in breaking that product. However, I did pick up a bunch of base sketches (an idea I loved and am glad to see return).

What are they smoking? hmmm... Upper Deck Marvel Beginnings: $200 gets you roughly 3 boxes at MSRP, per odds - 1 sketch, a bunch of comic inserts (4 or 5), and a whole lot of base/subset cards, but not a complete set unless there is absolutely perfect collation on the die-cuts and foils. Pretty consistent. I suppose they are smoking the same thing they've been smoking for the past 2 years. But I'm happy to hear what I'm missing in this comparison.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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What UD is supposedly selling this set on is nostolgia that does not exist (for the most part). They are trying to force feed old designs that were greatly popular with basketball fans to every market...designs, I might add, that they had NOTHING TO DO WITH! They were all done by the folks who were with Fleer (their competition). Also, much of the "hobby love" for those alder inserts were caused by folks who were artificially pumping up prices just so that they could make tons of cash.

Is anyone really pining for Precious Metal Gems cards of Iron Man? Are charachter collectors going to step up and pay hundreds of dollars for cards numbered to 100? 50? Or high 3 to low 4 figures for the Wolverine PMG Green/10? I severely doubt it. If not, where is the potential upside to busting boxes with a $200 price tag?

Premier nor Beeginnings are suitable comparisons as both of those had all original chase sets that stood on their own merrit. Here UD is just figuring that they can slap the Retro name on anything and sell it for the same price.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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They took the fun out of a fun idea with insane prices. Would I like to collect these? Sure, I dig the old designs. Am I going to pay $200 for it? Hell no!
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:43 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dd316 View Post
They took the fun out of a fun idea with insane prices. Would I like to collect these? Sure, I dig the old designs. Am I going to pay $200 for it? Hell no!
Maybe they took retro prices and adjusted for inflation?

(What cost $200 in 2012 would cost $120.46 in 1991.)
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
I think that is a very 'sketch collector' attitude, verses an all around 'non-sports' or 'comic' collector attitude. Personally, I hated those folded sketch cards and had no interest in breaking that product. However, I did pick up a bunch of base sketches (an idea I loved and am glad to see return).

What are they smoking? hmmm... Upper Deck Marvel Beginnings: $200 gets you roughly 3 boxes at MSRP, per odds - 1 sketch, a bunch of comic inserts (4 or 5), and a whole lot of base/subset cards, but not a complete set unless there is absolutely perfect collation on the die-cuts and foils. Pretty consistent. I suppose they are smoking the same thing they've been smoking for the past 2 years. But I'm happy to hear what I'm missing in this comparison.
Yeah, it's definitely a sketch collector attitude.

But, it's also common sense. Comic cards don't have rookies, character autographs, or game-used memorabilia. UD is definitely smoking something if they think they can charge ~$200 for a single panel sketch and "comic" inserts.

From what I've seen Marvel Beginnings has been very borderline from a value perspective and most seem to wait until D&A/Blowout/etc. lower box prices closer to the norm of ~$50. This Retro set is in an entirely different league. It's a cool idea and might see initial success (similar to IM3) but depending on the production run, box prices will plummet, imo, and subsequent runs will not work without some huge value added like multi-panel sketches while also being a limited run.

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Old 05-30-2013, 05:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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$100 box, yes please. $200, see ya.
I'd bet these boxes will be retail priced at $200-225/box.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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This sounds exactly the same as when Marvel Premier was coming out. Very few people believed it would be successful. Everyone said it was too expensive. A lot of the same opinions are being made on this product too.

I think that this stuff has the potential to be very popular. The difficulty of the inserts will prolong the value of this product for years to come. It certainly depends on the quality of the sketch cards and the list of signers, but the rarity of the inserts might make it a moot point.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:38 PM   #23 (permalink)
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This sounds exactly the same as when Marvel Premier was coming out. Very few people believed it would be successful. Everyone said it was too expensive. A lot of the same opinions are being made on this product too.

I think that this stuff has the potential to be very popular. The difficulty of the inserts will prolong the value of this product for years to come. It certainly depends on the quality of the sketch cards and the list of signers, but the rarity of the inserts might make it a moot point.
I think Marvel Premier is a different beast though. A lot of people who doubted it's success didn't realize how nice those sketches would be. To me, it has by and far the best sketches out of any product to ever hit. Plus the base cards sold pretty well and were all numbered very low, making a complete set fairly hard to build. Premier was basically Marvel Exquisite. Upper Deck's other retro products (hockey and football) have not lived up to the high price tag and I think Marvel Retro will do the same. Had they put two sketches in it, with one being two panels and one being one panel, plus all the inserts, I think people would happily pay $200 a box. From what I've seen though of Retro, it's nothing like Premier.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think a lot of people in this thread are saying boxes are too expensive, and that they won't buy them at $200/box. That doesn't mean they won't collect the cards or buy singles off ebay.

I do think the product will be successful, because I think there are plenty of rip & flippers who will take a chance on it being a big hit. However, I think most traditional non-sport collectors will pass on opening boxes and will focus instead on picking up singles; or, if they do decide to open any, it will be something like a single box to get a base set with the chance for a nice hit. But I don't think many traditional non-sport collectors will be buying it by the case.
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Old 05-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd bet these boxes will be retail priced at $200-225/box.
Just so everybody is perfectly clear, the boxes have been available for pre-sale on D&A for $200/hobby box since I started this thread. There is no need to speculate price, except if/how quickly the price will drop and how low. If I recall, MP went on sale for $180 Black Friday, which was something like 3-6 weeks after it came out.

I agree their choice of subsets was poor. I don't really know what they are or their relevance, I guess since I don't collect sports cards. I'm very interested to see who the comic signers are (I assume they will get Stan Lee, per usual) and what artists they manage to get on the set. NAR!, Jusko? It only takes a couple cards to make people salivate!. The artist list will make a huge difference. Even at 1 sketch per box (and a second sketch in 1:44 packs, almost every other hobby box)

I agree with aggie. I think there will be a good number of collectors, like me, who buy a single box because they want to have the base set and are willing to take a shot on the the inserts. Those initial breaks will make all the difference, just like they did for MP. People keep saying that you can't compare the two, but this is clearly UD's follow-up to MP so I'm not sure how you avoid it.
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