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Old 06-03-2013, 07:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Magic the Gathering release this week.

If you have the ability to get this at retail or under do it... It is going to be the hottest set Wizards has released in a long time.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Carr is referring to "Modern Masters" by the way.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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MTG should be studied as a model for CCGs when so many have fallen by the wayside. My favorite will always be the Trek CCG 1st edition.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cujobyte View Post
Carr is referring to "Modern Masters" by the way.
Nods, lol I completely forgot to mention the name.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I should be getting 12 boxes of Modern Masters. I'm very excited. Got 4 for a crazy steal (hook up with a store owner), 4 at MSRP and 4 more at just a bit over MSRP.

The toughest decision is how many boxes do I leave in the closet.

Since this is a format meant to be drafted, sealed product will have a huge premium.

Compare it to a box of Rise of the Eldrazi - a set with very, very low RoI but is heavily sought after for limited play - sealed booster boxes sell in the $300 range.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This stuff will be crazy, plus since they didnt really put any good lands, it's will make the pain, fetch, etc more expensive!!!
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I should be getting 12 boxes of Modern Masters. I'm very excited. Got 4 for a crazy steal (hook up with a store owner), 4 at MSRP and 4 more at just a bit over MSRP.

The toughest decision is how many boxes do I leave in the closet.

Since this is a format meant to be drafted, sealed product will have a huge premium.

Compare it to a box of Rise of the Eldrazi - a set with very, very low RoI but is heavily sought after for limited play - sealed booster boxes sell in the $300 range.
What is the MSRP? All I can find online now is the jacked up pricing :/
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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What is the MSRP? All I can find online now is the jacked up pricing :/
Full MSRP is $6.99 a pack which is $167 a box.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow, those boxes are already fetching $225+... Cost was under $100 on those - damn.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow, those boxes are already fetching $225+... Cost was under $100 on those - damn.
It's one of the heavily sought-after products in a VERY long time and production has been extremely limited.

Very, very few places are getting how much they wanted because there's simply not enough to go around.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It's one of the heavily sought-after products in a VERY long time and production has been extremely limited.

Very, very few places are getting how much they wanted because there's simply not enough to go around.
Ya, I just read the allocation notes on my solicitation for this one. Given there is always an allocation notes, but this one was a little more detailed.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So is there any hope of these being available in retail?? Or are these a hobby only release? Is that even a thing with MTG?
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So is there any hope of these being available in retail?? Or are these a hobby only release? Is that even a thing with MTG?
MTG products typically come in 2 varieties:

- booster packs w/ random a distribution of a set number of each rarity
- a fixed set of cards packaged as a single product

There's typically no overlap for a given product. Meaning that for Modern Masters, the only way to purchase it is via booster packs (or boxes of boosters) and there's no way to get a full set from Wizards of the Coast directly.

In booster packs, you have a chance of getting a premium version (foil) of one of the cards in the set. There aren't any autos or anything like that and the foil is always of the set you're opening.

Modern Masters is unique in that every single booster pack will have 1 foil.

As for distribution, you have a chance to get these in a retail location, but it's almost certainly limited to card shops that sell MTG product and signed up (a while ago) for Modern Masters. The best thing to do is to call around if you want to get some, as some card shops have already allocated their product for running events (such as booster drafts) or are selling the product by box to customers. Everyone's doing something just a little bit differently, so you def want to call.

Also, it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to find product at MSRP. The demand is far outstripping the supply here and the price is being adjusted accordingly.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Tip for anyone who has a magic online account.

They are going to be selling Monder Masters(by the booster pack) at MSRP. If you get a full set, then you can redeem the set for the physical cards.

Neat way to get the cards without paying the inflated costs.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bmemike View Post
I should be getting 12 boxes of Modern Masters. I'm very excited. Got 4 for a crazy steal (hook up with a store owner), 4 at MSRP and 4 more at just a bit over MSRP.

The toughest decision is how many boxes do I leave in the closet.

Since this is a format meant to be drafted, sealed product will have a huge premium.

Compare it to a box of Rise of the Eldrazi - a set with very, very low RoI but is heavily sought after for limited play - sealed booster boxes sell in the $300 range.
A week or two after release I suspect box prices coming down. The expected value out of a 24-pack box of reprints is going to be well below $200 especially with the top $ cards coming in at mythic.

The issue is the Modern format is way, way less popular the the current format (ie Standard/Type 2). The VAST majority of presells of Modern Masters have been from speculators. A simple survey of LGSs around here had 75%+ of buyers not being Modern players or players who've played the format only a handful of times. What this means is demand is not going to meet supply in the short-term thanks the incoming eBay auctions that will run probably for a good three months (similar to every new set) plus another injection of singles from the Grand Prix which is expected to have ~3000 players.

Now that doesn't singles mean prices are going to completely crash... just go down significantly which means expected box value is going to be much lower than many realize. So I suspect there being a slight rush to move boxes initially which will increase supply. But soon after boxes will go up, and up, and up.

Your example of RotE is dead-on, imo. If you are looking for investment, hold onto your boxes. Modern Masters being a limited run set and seemingly a blast to draft will have drafters with deep pockets paying large sums of $$ far into the future.

Last edited by BHotz; 06-04-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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They are going to be selling Monder Masters(by the booster pack) at MSRP. If you get a full set, then you can redeem the set for the physical cards.
Modern Masters will not be redeemable on MTGO.

Modern Masters on Magic Online June 14 : Daily MTG : Magic: The Gathering
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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A week or two after release I suspect box prices coming down. The expected value out of a 24-pack box of reprints is going to be well below $200 especially with the top $ cards coming in at mythic.
While Modern is definitely less popular than Standard, printing the shock lands in RTR block and releasing a set like Modern Masters is going to help considerably. Plus, WotC is REALLY pushing this format and it's getting a lot more regular play than most people probably expected.

The price on expensive common and uncommon cards is going to just crash. There's nothing that can (or should) be done about that. Many expensive casual rares (such as Doubling Season) will take a hit for sure, but they'll start to creep back up in a few months after supply is distributed. Will they hit their prices from a month ago? No - but they'll recover for sure.

The big-name mythics will dip even less and recover even quicker.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Well damn
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A week or two after release I suspect box prices coming down. The expected value out of a 24-pack box of reprints is going to be well below $200 especially with the top $ cards coming in at mythic.

The issue is the Modern format is way, way less popular the the current format (ie Standard/Type 2). The VAST majority of presells of Modern Masters have been from speculators. A simple survey of LGSs around here had 75%+ of buyers not being Modern players or players who've played the format only a handful of times. What this means is demand is not going to meet supply in the short-term thanks the incoming eBay auctions that will run probably for a good three months (similar to every new set) plus another injection of singles from the Grand Prix which is expected to have ~3000 players.

Now that doesn't singles mean prices are going to completely crash... just go down significantly which means expected box value is going to be much lower than many realize. So I suspect there being a slight rush to move boxes initially which will increase supply. But soon after boxes will go up, and up, and up.

Your example of RotE is dead-on, imo. If you are looking for investment, hold onto your boxes. Modern Masters being a limited run set and seemingly a blast to draft will have drafters with deep pockets paying large sums of $$ far into the future.
Wizards of the Coast has fully backed the *modern* format, hence the reason for this particular release. No other format has caught on as quickly as modern has, and with Grand Prix Las Vegas happening in the summer (and estimates putting it at the largest U.S. grand prix of all time), I think the tide will turn quickly in regards to it's popularity.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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167 bucks per box at 24 packs total is still a joke. Sure you have a shot at a Tarmogoyf, but when you look at the full set list and compare to eBay it would be tough to recoup the value, even with a Tarmogoyf.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #21 (permalink)
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167 bucks per box at 24 packs total is still a joke. Sure you have a shot at a Tarmogoyf, but when you look at the full set list and compare to eBay it would be tough to recoup the value, even with a Tarmogoyf.
True, but $167 for a box that will easily sell on eBay for $250+ is a sure win lol

On that note my LCS already said any boxes that aren't used for weekend drafting will be sold at $225 a box (or whatever online median is at) on Monday!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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167 bucks per box at 24 packs total is still a joke. Sure you have a shot at a Tarmogoyf, but when you look at the full set list and compare to eBay it would be tough to recoup the value, even with a Tarmogoyf.
Current value-per-pack estimates are anywhere between $10.50-$12.50.

So, if you can get packs closer to MSRP, you're winning.

Remember there's also 1 foil per pack, which can have a huge swing on prices.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wizards of the Coast has fully backed the *modern* format, hence the reason for this particular release. No other format has caught on as quickly as modern has, and with Grand Prix Las Vegas happening in the summer (and estimates putting it at the largest U.S. grand prix of all time), I think the tide will turn quickly in regards to it's popularity.
My argument is comparing similar "first wave" Standard sets to Modern. If you follow the market at all, you will see a half-a-dozen eBay sellers putting up playsets of cards sometimes more than twice a day. Anyways, these are all "Standard" cards. Yes, Modern is becoming more popular. But there is absolutely no way it could EVER be half as popular as Standard. So we are getting a limited but very significant short-term burst of singles into a market not nearly as popular as the regular sets that come out four per year. So, yes, the supply is going to be huge compared to the demand for probably a good two months at least.

*And to be factually correct, proportionally, there have most certainly been multiple formats that have "caught on" as quickly as Modern has ...when you've been playing MTG on and off since 1994, you have seen a lot of changes . You are right WotC is showing awesome support but until large tournament circuits such as SC and TCGplayer pick-up Modern along with more FNM pushes by LGS, Modern doesn't have a chance to come close to Standard's popularity. Also you have the whole $$-entry-barrier which right now is very high.

Quote:
Current value-per-pack estimates are anywhere between $10.50-$12.50.

So, if you can get packs closer to MSRP, you're winning.

Remember there's also 1 foil per pack, which can have a huge swing on prices.
It's way lower than that, man. I've been flipping Tempest/Urza's Saga Tournament deck boxes and other high "expected value" sealed boxes of MTG for nearly four years now as a hobby. I've gotten a pretty good grasp of making money/breaking even from sealed MTG product @ over $200 a box.

My math has current value-per-pack (less foils) at around $8. Many of those claiming $11 used store prices which is silly for old staples... you should most definitely use eBay sold listings. THEN you consider all these singles are reprints coming into a market which is way softer than Standard so it'll probably be around $6 per pack. Foils are typically around 1 in every 4 packs. Modern Masters is 1 per pack. Typically you'll get about 1 foil rare per 36 pack box so at x4 more in a 24 pack box that equates to barely over 2 foil rares per box. It will add to the expected value but not by much - will definitely be high variance with some non-foil rares @ $0.75 and some @ $20.

As a whole, WotC did a great job but printing a handful of worthless Mythics, many rares under $1, and all the big money cards as Mythics really hurt the expected value of again, a reprinted set.

*Also as you can see here -->

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=515373

there seems to be a second wave incoming. It sure seems like most are underestimating the production run. And realize GP Vegas which is thought to break records will probably have 3000+ players... that's another pretty big injection of singles into the market/eBay.

Last edited by BHotz; 06-04-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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magic is one of those products i buy every release
i normally buy a case of boosters of every set
as they cycle out i sell them a few years later
normally 80 ish flips to 140ish fast
my case if innsarad sold for 840
dark ss. will be next in 6 months or so
easy way to make some cash after teh first 3 cases i picked up
although RTR i picked up 3 cases at winter for 400 each one of the strongest sets in a long time
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #25 (permalink)
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My math has current value-per-pack (less foils) at around $8. Many of those claiming $11 used store prices which is silly for old staples... you should most definitely use eBay sold listings. THEN you consider all these singles are reprints coming into a market which is way softer than Standard so it'll probably be around $6 per pack. Foils are typically around 1 in every 4 packs. Modern Masters is 1 per pack. Typically you'll get about 1 foil rare per 36 pack box so at x4 more in a 24 pack box that equates to barely over 2 foil rares per box. It will add to the expected value but not by much - will definitely be high variance with some non-foil rares @ $0.75 and some @ $20.

As a whole, WotC did a great job but printing a handful of worthless Mythics, many rares under $1, and all the big money cards as Mythics really hurt the expected value of again, a reprinted set.

*Also as you can see here -->

[MM] - Modern Masters released in 2 Waves confirmed today - MTG Salvation Forums

there seems to be a second wave incoming. It sure seems like most are underestimating the production run. And realize GP Vegas which is thought to break records will probably have 3000+ players... that's another pretty big injection of singles into the market/eBay.
If you factor in shipping, people are paying $250-$260 a box, and this is completed/sold listings.

Your math is off at $8 per pack.
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