Blowout Cards Forums
Advertise On Forum

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > NON-SPORTS

NON-SPORTS Post Your Non-Sports Cards Hobby talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2013, 11:12 AM   #901 (permalink)
Member
 
ChrisM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 335
Default

As a follow on to richo's question - how important are dealers (case breakers) to the industry. As a collector, I obviously want to get what I want from a set at the best price possible.
ChrisM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:27 AM   #902 (permalink)
Tim
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM View Post
As a follow on to richo's question - how important are dealers (case breakers) to the industry.
Without dealers there is nothing to buy.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:28 AM   #903 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Well based on two cases I don't agree. I don't expect CH/GK per case. I happen to think Teranishi is a good artist and would consider him a decent pull. I have been doing this a long time and don't resort to hyperbole. My two cases had lame sketches, period. It happens. As I said, it is NOT a true representation of sketches across this whole release.

I opened 8 cases of SW GF2 (initial preorder). I had the worst 8 cases' worth of sketches in my life. I trashed the product. I was lucky to average $10 per sketch across all 8 cases. But I kept reading of other decent breaks. So I ordered more. And boom I got two really nice cases. I have since ordered another 10 cases, and only one was a stinker and the rest had really nice art! So there is no reason for anyone to read too much into a simple two-case break here.
That's true. I primarily collect Star Wars and opened a few GF2 cases, and despite bad reports, I had what I thought were really excellent cases. Loads of top end sketches. Didn't have a single bad case, which reminds me, I must upload scans of the last one.
richo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:30 AM   #904 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Without dealers there is nothing to buy.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)

It's extremely gratifying to hear how happy many of you are with the quality of the set so far. I hope that continues.

To your point, I think dealers are underestimating interest or perhaps are just unaware of interest and are, as someone suggested earlier, just trying to pay some bills quickly.

But even heritage, i'm pretty impressed that boxes are maintaining their value. Maybe busted sets and loose sketches are down, but sealed product is still selling roughly about retail 16 months later.
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:53 AM   #905 (permalink)
Member
 
ChrisM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 335
Default

I realize dealers are who sellers buy from, but I don't mean dealers who sell cases, boxes, loose packs to collectors. I specifically mean dealers who open the product to sell sets / individual cards, etc. to the collectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Without dealers there is nothing to buy.

I was thinking about this earlier. A lot of collectors jump for joy when dealers like gelavi or stormshadow undervalue stuff (so they can grab it). But there are two directions here:

1.) the product itself is so good that those collectors really did get a bargain and can be thrilled about it.

2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.

So the products themselves really ultimately tell the tale. GPK Chrome was mass produced and not received well, so dealers had to lower quick to get out and collectors stayed away. Look also at Breygent's Grimm, Transformers, and Dexter 4. But UD Marvel Premier and Retro had the opposite effect - wait to buy Premier stuff and price goes up. Good products will sell!

So many products are either overproduced or lacking in content, but MA Invasion is very strong and I believe these dealers selling too low will regret it later, but only time will tell. (Based on content and numbers Alvin hinted at as well as lack of retail, I would think MA:I will be solid.)
ChrisM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:55 AM   #906 (permalink)
Member
 
Zerokruel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,501
Default

I actually wished I would have budgeted for this break. The content looks very good and I like the design of the cards. Quality of the sketches seems to have improved from MAH (from what little I have come across).

Good work!
__________________
Currently looking for the following comic Books:
United Comics: 21,22,23,24,26
Tip Top: 173 & 184
Peanuts 1 (1953)
Peanuts: 1-4 (1963-64)
Zerokruel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:55 AM   #907 (permalink)
Member
 
Carrbeaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
2.) the two dealers mentioned set the bar too low and the product itself goes south. (collectors should not be happy in this case as their "good deal" doesn't turn out so good.) If a product is weak, this is what happens.

If a collector pays full market value and the product is good and goes up, collector is happy. If collector gets a steal and product is bad and goes down even from the "steal" price, collector is unhappy.
This more than anything. Once the bar is set low like this it is almost impossible to see higher sales after that. Aside from Exceptions like Marvel Retro and others.
__________________
If you ask me what is the least I will take, then I am going to respond with, "What is the most you are willing to pay?"
Carrbeaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:56 AM   #908 (permalink)
Tim
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
But even heritage, i'm pretty impressed that boxes are maintaining their value. Maybe busted sets and loose sketches are down, but sealed product is still selling roughly about retail 16 months later.
hey i did 50 cases of heritage, lol - i thought it was great. (Topps QC hosed me on the first 20 cases but that's another story.)

so i just sold my first master set for $80.00. gelavi ended his listing with 8 sold and two left to go, lol. stormshadow still have 8 left for $50 and two sold. once stormshadow is out, this is poised to take off!!!
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #909 (permalink)
Tim
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,008
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM View Post
I realize dealers are who sellers buy from, but I don't mean dealers who sell cases, boxes, loose packs to collectors. I specifically mean dealers who open the product to sell sets / individual cards, etc. to the collectors.
yes i know what you meant and that was what i meant.
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:11 PM   #910 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 521
Default

This guy had a great break!

3 boxes of MARS ATTACKS!
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #911 (permalink)
Member
 
JRCrosby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
This guy had a great break!

3 boxes of MARS ATTACKS!
Did he only pull 2 cards of the 4-card puzzle? I thought all 4-card puzzles were going to be packed together?
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/JasonCrosbyIllustration
JRCrosby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #912 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRCrosby View Post
Did he only pull 2 cards of the 4-card puzzle? I thought all 4-card puzzles were going to be packed together?
I thought so too at first. Spoke to production, and it seems that some of the 4 carders had to be split up because we just had WAY TOO MANY 4 CARD PUZZLES! If we'd packed em all together, we'd never have had enough to meet our 1 per box guarantee.

It's unfortunate, but it seemed like EVERYONE did like 10 puzzles so it became a problem...
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #913 (permalink)
Member
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
hey i did 50 cases of heritage, lol - i thought it was great. (Topps QC hosed me on the first 20 cases but that's another story.)

so i just sold my first master set for $80.00. gelavi ended his listing with 8 sold and two left to go, lol. stormshadow still have 8 left for $50 and two sold. once stormshadow is out, this is poised to take off!!!
I was sitting at the airport catching up. Since everybody's so positive about the set quality I decided to pick up one of those underpriced mini master sets. Guess I got the last one, since it was 7 sold and 3 remaining when I pushed the button. I'm probably only going to pick up a box or two... Not nearly enough to complete the insert sets.

Thanks, and good luck with your breaks.

Re low prices on base sets... Don't forget the collectors that buy a bunch of product and then dump the extra base sets and other stuff they don't want.. They are just looking to sell quick while interest is high. Not making any money. Personally, I try not to undercut people for quick sales. Partly because I depend on those rip-n-flip dealers to sell me the singles I want/need and partly because I'd rather store the cards than sell them for scraps.
__________________
My B/S/T thread: http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/non-sports-singles-buy-sell-trade/564803-spider-fans-fs-ft-thread-5finity-marvel-sketch-cards-inserts-sets-pscs.html
Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:21 PM   #914 (permalink)
Member
 
JRCrosby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 443
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
It's unfortunate, but it seemed like EVERYONE did like 10 puzzles so it became a problem...
guilty as charged......
__________________
https://www.facebook.com/JasonCrosbyIllustration
JRCrosby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 12:29 PM   #915 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRCrosby View Post
guilty as charged......
End of the day, if it's a GOOD puzzle and there aren't too many of them split up, I don't think fans (like this guy) will mind.

After all, there's something to be said for the fun of the chase, and if one guy can't complete his set, he'll pop em online and they'll get together eventually as long as they're all opened up and out there.
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #916 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisM View Post
As a follow on to richo's question - how important are dealers (case breakers) to the industry. As a collector, I obviously want to get what I want from a set at the best price possible.
Quite the loaded, but interesting question. . . and I think there are many answers. . . most of which pivot on the balance they create. . . one of the issues that is created in this environment is a flood of material on the market on day one. Generally far more product than can possibly be absorbed by the collecting community. . . this pushes prices down (especially on the most price sensitive mid-low range components of a product).

Certainly for less popular titles dealers make a huge difference, but for very popular titles the answer isn't so clear. . .

As has been stated -- ultimately the product determines the market. . . But it definitely can be impacted along the way -- both positively and negatively.

I'm still astonished at the incredibly low prices some items are sold at. . . I can understand overproduced items (and there are lots of those) winding up in the cheap bin, but I've see cards with very low print runs dumped for next to nothing. . . Like -- the Robert Downey Jr. Iron Man autos that hit the market when they came out and fell to under $100. . .
__________________
I'm finally on facebook!
https://www.facebook.com/webjon.webjon
webjon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 01:05 PM   #917 (permalink)
Tim
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,008
Default

stormshadow just undersold a heritage insert set for $150.00. (it sold within hours of being listed.)
Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 01:44 PM   #918 (permalink)
Member
 
rmaheras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
I thought so too at first. Spoke to production, and it seems that some of the 4 carders had to be split up because we just had WAY TOO MANY 4 CARD PUZZLES! If we'd packed em all together, we'd never have had enough to meet our 1 per box guarantee.

It's unfortunate, but it seemed like EVERYONE did like 10 puzzles so it became a problem...
Then I'm glad that for the four puzzles I did, I designed all the cards to be able to stand alone -- just in case one can't get the missing pieces!
rmaheras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 01:49 PM   #919 (permalink)
Member
 
rmaheras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
This guy had a great break!

3 boxes of MARS ATTACKS!
The graffiti parallel card is great!
rmaheras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 02:05 PM   #920 (permalink)
Member
 
Gojira69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
At launch, around Oct. 25.
I got my binder from Topps a few days ago. Very nice. Lurid and garish are a couple of words which come to mind. In other words, perfect!

Speaking of binders...

I have the current one, and I got one from the Heritage series titled "Attack from Space". Looks like I blew past my opportunity to get a Heritage binder with "Mars Attacks" on it. If anyone out there has a spare for sale or trade, lemme know...

Thanks.
Gojira69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 02:12 PM   #921 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 579
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvin View Post
Printing plates include base cards, all inserts, and two levels of parallels: concept sketches and heritage design, because we felt they were interesting enough to warrant it.
Sorry, just a quick final follow up on this, does this mean we have the same, or very similar plates to those from heritage for the parallel inserts? (Not a criticism, great news!)
richo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 02:26 PM   #922 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richo View Post
Sorry, just a quick final follow up on this, does this mean we have the same, or very similar plates to those from heritage for the parallel inserts? (Not a criticism, great news!)
If you mean number, no. I think we only had plates of the base cards in heritage. This time we used two levels of parallels also, plus a larger base set too.

If you mean visually, than yes, the heritage parallel plates will look consistent with the heritage plates from last year.
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 02:54 PM   #923 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 579
Default

I meant more the pictures on the cards. Is the last heritage set different cards to these heritage parallels? I don't really understand the link. Sorry if this sounds like I don't know much, I am a Star Wars person and just tried my luck on a case as quite liked what I saw!
richo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 03:44 PM   #924 (permalink)
Member
 
monkeymcgee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 7,278
Default

Well, I just picked up a Heritage set and all 4 "Join the Fight" graffiti cards from one of everyone's favorite sellers for about half the cost of a case. Seemed like a crazy deal to me
__________________
Collecting: money in the bank
monkeymcgee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 04:01 PM   #925 (permalink)
Member
 
dd316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,110
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richo View Post
I meant more the pictures on the cards. Is the last heritage set different cards to these heritage parallels? I don't really understand the link. Sorry if this sounds like I don't know much, I am a Star Wars person and just tried my luck on a case as quite liked what I saw!
The Heritage Parallels are the new card images (Invasion) on the classic "Heritage" format, with the white borders.
__________________
MY ARTWORK - tdastick.deviantart.com
dd316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.