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Old 06-08-2013, 03:03 PM   #26 (permalink)
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After I got the screw job on my Cryptozoic orders last year, I switched those orders to my main distributor. They are also on the list - so this will not effect me like it will others.

I never really agree with these distribution changes. I think there bad for business and create a lot of negativity on the community.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
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...But Viceroy just limited distribution to two outlets, themselves?
It's true that we had 2 outlets for the Carnival release, but we didn't try to limit it to just 2. We actually contacted two of the dealers on that list, and never heard back.

We're open to having our products be available at multiple locations, but we can only work with dealers who reply to our inquiries. We'd just rather not add another layer of markups by going through distributors and then them sell to dealers. It means we have to build the relationships distributors already have in place with dealers, but we feel it's worth it in the end.

It takes time, and is frustrating when online dealers and hobby shops ignore you, but it also helps determine which shops would be a good fit. If they aren't willing to even reply and say 'thanks, but we're not interested', then it probably isn't a shop we want collectors to have to deal with when buying our products in the first place.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I bet one of those dealers that did not respond was Hill's. DAC is bad too. Not so much since I now have a premier account. But, before the premier account, it would take days if not ever to get a response from DAC. I do think BO has the best response time.

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It's true that we had 2 outlets for the Carnival release, but we didn't try to limit it to just 2. We actually contacted two of the dealers on that list, and never heard back.

We're open to having our products be available at multiple locations, but we can only work with dealers who reply to our inquiries. We'd just rather not add another layer of markups by going through distributors and then them sell to dealers. It means we have to build the relationships distributors already have in place with dealers, but we feel it's worth it in the end.

It takes time, and is frustrating when online dealers and hobby shops ignore you, but it also helps determine which shops would be a good fit. If they aren't willing to even reply and say 'thanks, but we're not interested', then it probably isn't a shop we want collectors to have to deal with when buying our products in the first place.
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Old 06-08-2013, 03:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Being able to purchase goods directly from the company that manufactures them is fairly uncommon when it comes to our day-to-day needs. Very few of us buy our produce directly from the farmers, our meats directly from the slaughter houses, our furniture directly from the mills, our fuel directly from the refineries. (insert tomato icon, trading card collectors have been spoiled in this global economy... especially by smaller press companies) I'm surprised ANY trading card company takes direct orders from consumers for quantities as small as a single case. A small company like Viceroy or 5finity may be able to manage that type of distribution. As companies grow, it makes more sense to sell to distributors verses the end consumer. Viceroy decided it was time and now Crytpozoic is going in that direction. I'm surprised it has taken them this long to make the change. Considering the number of licenses and the size of production runs, this is probably going to streamline their business significantly. What has to be taken into consideration is that this will reduce their expenses, allowing the MSRP to remain constant. Remember when Ryan said that selling the entire inventory to two customers at a lower price improved their profit margin? Likely, these selected distributors will be purchasing the entire production run at a lower price, allowing the them to make more money without increasing prices for the end consumer.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Being able to purchase goods directly from the company that manufactures them is fairly uncommon when it comes to our day-to-day needs. Very few of us buy our produce directly from the farmers, our meats directly from the slaughter houses, our furniture directly from the mills, our fuel directly from the refineries.
Sorry, but that is a huge stretch. I hate to use the same analogy I've used in a previous discussion but try this;

Go ask the next random 50 people you meet on the street if they have bought food or gas in the past month, and then ask those same 50 people if they bought any trading cards in the last month. Do you think you'll see a difference?

I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden Crypto just threw their hands in the air and said "screw it, this is too hard, we can't distribute like this anymore."

It's really nice to see a company like Viceroy posting on here to explain their position. I manage a 4 million dollar restaurant, and if I have a customer complaint do you think I get to just hide from them and just give them a bottled response or do you think I address them immediately to mitigate any damage and help retain them as a customer? ZAGAT just rated us in the top 10 places in the entire US to get a drink, so obviously we take challenges head on and keep the customers happy. Is it wrong to expect that of other companies?
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Depends on where they go with this... if they are doing this to avoid the price gouging and setting an agreed upon price their authorized dealers can sell for then I am all for it... but not saying that is whats going on. BO is about the worst for price gouging its customers.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Sorry, but that is a huge stretch. I hate to use the same analogy I've used in a previous discussion but try this;

Go ask the next random 50 people you meet on the street if they have bought food or gas in the past month, and then ask those same 50 people if they bought any trading cards in the last month. Do you think you'll see a difference?
Do you buy model cards directly from the company that makes them, or from the Walmart/Target/Craft Store/Hobby store? But I guess that is a stretch too even though it is pretty equivalent to trading cards in my mind. So what is it that you regularly purchase, that you are able to buy directly from the manufacturer?

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I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden Crypto just threw their hands in the air and said "screw it, this is too hard, we can't distribute like this anymore."
Why says that is what happened? I'm sure this change was carefully thought through and planned.

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It's really nice to see a company like Viceroy posting on here to explain their position. I manage a 4 million dollar restaurant, and if I have a customer complaint do you think I get to just hide from them and just give them a bottled response or do you think I address them immediately to mitigate any damage and help retain them as a customer? ZAGAT just rated us in the top 10 places in the entire US to get a drink, so obviously we take challenges head on and keep the customers happy. Is it wrong to expect that of other companies?
Do you go onto all of the restaurant rating websites and comment on every complaint that a previous customer has left about your restaurant? That is what you are asking Cryptozoic to do. I'm sure people who contact their customer service will get a response.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I am taking a wait and see approach to see what affect this will have on prices. But like the majority of people here on BO, I don't buy directly from Cryptozoic, and I don't buy from a distributor, I buy from online dealers. So I personally don't expect my price to change much.
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
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The direct from the manufacturer concern can't be used when you're trying to compare necessities for life versus items acquired purely with discretionary income that are quite useless outside of whatever psychological value the purchaser assigns to them. I don't head over to the grocery store and pick up burgers or a steak just for the hell of it. I pick them up because I die if I don't eat. However, on the other hand, the $285 order for non sports cards I just placed yesterday serves zero purpose to me other than satisfying my enjoyment of possibly hitting something nice. I'm way more likely to have buyers remorse from these boxes than I am from a steak.

Anyway, how the Cryptozoic product(s) will be acquired in the future isn't the issue. Pricing is. If these products hit market like they have in the past, and I can secure a couple cases of BBT 3 or whatever CZE product I want at about $53/box, I'll be perfectly fine. I believe the concern of most here is how this is consolidating product, from a growing operation no less, into just a few who have been somehow deemed worthy to supply the United States market with their product. I'm just at a loss as to how this works out better for collectors.

Matter of fact, let's do this... if the case pack is same as Big Bang Theory 2 (12 hobby boxes per case) and the insert ratio is the same (1 auto/1 wardrobe, at least, per box) and at the auto list includes at least Kuoco, Parsons and Galecki - I'd like to preorder a case right now from whichever "distributor" is preselling at what my previous distributor was offering pre orders at last year. $53/box. Looking to lock in a preorder of BBT 3 at $636/case. LMK. I won't hold my breath.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:31 AM   #35 (permalink)
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So what is it that you regularly purchase, that you are able to buy directly from the manufacturer?



Why says that is what happened? I'm sure this change was carefully thought through and planned.



Do you go onto all of the restaurant rating websites and comment on every complaint that a previous customer has left about your restaurant? That is what you are asking Cryptozoic to do. I'm sure people who contact their customer service will get a response.
Ever heard of a farmers market. They are extremely popular because you get better produce at better prices by eliminating the middle man. And my retaurant(s) pride ourselves on buying as much local as they can provide for us. We just helped one farmer procure a 20,000 dollar wagyu beef bull to help provide the best product directly from the farm.

I agree that crypto didn't just decide they couldn't do it any more. I'm sure it was carefully thought out to make them more money. They certainly wouldn't do it for less money.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but we do follow up on as many online reviews as we can possibly find. And believe me, there are way more sites to review restaurants than there are about card collecting. Bad excuses!!
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm not making excuses, I just think your expectations are a bit too high. You are not bursting my bubble, that is great that you follow-up on bad reviews. You are a role model for Cryptozoic and I hope they read this and start going to all the various trading card message boards and blogs and address every single question and concern posted. And your restaurant buying from farmers is about equivalent to a dealer/LCS buying from Crypto, not a collector. Your restaurant is then turning those raw materials into goods being purchased by the end consumer. Even if that wasn't the case, I hate to break it to you but in most of the country a farmers market is still a third party distributor. You may be closer to the farmer than buying from a chain grocery store, but most of the time not directly from the farmer.

Ask 50 trading card collectors where they get their cards from. I'd speculate more than 90% will not say "directly from the manufacturer." Even those that do buy some things direct from the manufacturer aren't able to buy everything directly. No collector buys direct from Upper Deck, for example, unless they are also a dealer/store owner.

Model cars, action figures, video games, collectable figurines, comic books, small appliances, home electronics... whatever non necessities for life you want... regular people don't regularly buy things direct from the manufacturer. Ask 50 people about any of these things and most of them will tell you they buy them from a third party distributor. That is just the way our economy is set up. Of course you will be able to poke holes in my examples because many tiny businesses sell things directly to the end user. If you consider the magnitude of the market Cryptozoic is, you will realize that some guy making custom cowboy boots and selling them on the internet is not really equivalent.

Its about time Cryptozoic moved to a system that will better allow them to compete with the big boys in the trading card world. They consistently put together a better product.

People are just kissing Ryan's ass because he is here. If Viceroy's distribution change was just a blog entry on NSU, there would be 2 pages of "I'm not buying Viceroy products anymore" instead of "way to be progressive and set your company up for future growth and success."

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Old 06-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I still think this is a good thing. A lot of people on here were very angry with how certain retailers, Blowout included, handled Walking Dead Series 2. Holding back pre-orders until the price was almost double MSRP was a bad move. We all know Cryptozoic browses these boards and they saw how angry people were. A lot of people erroneously blamed Cryptozoic for the price increase which is just flat out wrong and stupid. Now they can better control price that the market pays on their products and can better control the flow of their product in the marketplace. Hopefully we continue to see high quality products come from them at a decent price. The lengths they have gone to get some of the people to sign for various releases shows they care about making a quality product. Looking at other companies non-sport releases shows how much more effort Cryptozoic puts into their product. I also love how on their relic cards, they actually show the character wearing the piece of clothing being used in the card, something more companies could also learn to do. Overall, Cryptozoic has become my favorite company, a company that I really look forward to each and every release. I have never been let down after opening a box of their product when considering the content I receive inside. Unfortunately, I cannot say that about some of the other companies out there.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I still think this is a good thing. A lot of people on here were very angry with how certain retailers, Blowout included, handled Walking Dead Series 2. it cHolding back pre-orders until the price was almost double MSRP was a bad move. We all know Cryptozoic browses these boards and they saw how angry people were. A lot of people erroneously blamed Cryptozoic for the price increase which is just flat out wrong and stupid. Now they can better control price that the market pays on their products and can better control the flow of their product in the marketplace. Hopefully we continue to see high quality products come from them at a decent price. The lengths they have gone to get some of the people to sign for various releases shows they care about making a quality product. Looking at other companies non-sport releases shows how much more effort Cryptozoic puts into their product. I also love how on their relic cards, they actually show the character wearing the piece of clothing being used in the card, something more companies could also learn to do. Overall, Cryptozoic has become my favorite company, a company that I really look forward to each and every release. I have never been let down after opening a box of their product when considering the content I receive inside. Unfortunately, I cannot say that about some of the other companies out there.
Blowout's handling of TWD S2 came to my mind as well when I read this. It remains to be seen if this will be a good move or not but we'll be able to examine the issue more when it comes time for TWD S3 and we can see what the availability and prices look like from these vendors.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #39 (permalink)
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All I wanna know is this the reason behind Crypts non payment to some artists?
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:19 PM   #40 (permalink)
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All I wanna know is this the reason behind Crypts non payment to some artists?
Didn't that guy claim they said cash flow issues?

They've been snatching up an awful lot of properties lately. Licenses aren't cheap. Production of sets isn't cheap. Actual vendors won't wait for payment. They will put your account on hold. No pay, no play. So screw the little fella.

Remember all the horror stories about UD backdooring cards years ago? Who do you guys think was running the UD Ent side back then?
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Who do you guys think was running the UD Ent side back then?
I've been wondering when that was gonna be pointed out... Although I thought it would have popped up in that rumor thread and then trickle its way over to this one.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Didn't that guy claim they said cash flow issues?

They've been snatching up an awful lot of properties lately. Licenses aren't cheap. Production of sets isn't cheap. Actual vendors won't wait for payment. They will put your account on hold. No pay, no play. So screw the little fella.

Remember all the horror stories about UD backdooring cards years ago? Who do you guys think was running the UD Ent side back then?
Well to me this whole thing sounds like they are trying to shore up the failing part of the biz which is the RPG games. I've a feeling the sketch card part of the biz may be just a way to fund the games part. could be wrong.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I've been wondering when that was gonna be pointed out... Although I thought it would have popped up in that rumor thread and then trickle its way over to this one.
Fruit from the poison tree.
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:36 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I've been wondering when that was gonna be pointed out... Although I thought it would have popped up in that rumor thread and then trickle its way over to this one.
It's not pointed out because no one wants to get kicked out of the good ol boys club they've got going over there.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:05 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Model cars, action figures, video games, collectable figurines, comic books, small appliances, home electronics... whatever non necessities for life you want... regular people don't regularly buy things direct from the manufacturer. Ask 50 people about any of these things and most of them will tell you they buy them from a third party distributor. That is just the way our economy is set up. Of course you will be able to poke holes in my examples because many tiny businesses sell things directly to the end user. If you consider the magnitude of the market Cryptozoic is, you will realize that some guy making custom cowboy boots and selling them on the internet is not really equivalent.
"
I don't wish to get into this discussion, really, but I would like to point out that the scale of production is a massive difference here. . . I mean -- how many cases of a product is Crypto putting out? 1000? I'm sure someone has done the math, but that number is miniscule compared to all the products mentioned above. . . and keep in mind the 'mass merchant' channel is already going through a different distributor.

So. . . if you are buying a product from a company that produces 1000 cases of product a year what are the chances you source product from that manufacturer. . . and to be even more realistic, the actual question is where does the small business you buy from source it's product. . . in those cases sourcing direct from the manufacturer isn't unusual at all.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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You all could be like me and buy singles and then you don't really care who distributes the product
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:18 PM   #47 (permalink)
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It's not pointed out because no one wants to get kicked out of the good ol boys club they've got going over there.
If all the sketch jobs are being moved overseas anyway, it doesn't really matter, does it?
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #48 (permalink)
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If all the sketch jobs are being moved overseas anyway, it doesn't really matter, does it?

I'm not convinced that's the case.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I'm not convinced that's the case.
I know, I was just being facetious. I knew I forgot something:
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:01 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I know, I was just being facetious. I knew I forgot something:
I figured.
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