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Old 06-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #51 (permalink)
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So. . . if you are buying a product from a company that produces 1000 cases of product a year what are the chances you source product from that manufacturer. . . and to be even more realistic, the actual question is where does the small business you buy from source it's product. . . in those cases sourcing direct from the manufacturer isn't unusual at all.
Thank you Jon for supporting my original assertion regarding who the distribution change might actually impact.

Acquiring licenses like The Hobbit and producing retail versions of their popular products suggests they are going to be ramping up production numbers.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Thank you Jon for supporting my original assertion regarding who the distribution change might actually impact.

Acquiring licenses like The Hobbit and producing retail versions of their popular products suggests they are going to be ramping up production numbers.
I could see them doing more base sets and maybe some more insert type stuff for retail. It seemed like costumes/autographs were incredibly hard to hit in retail. This way, you have an additional source of revenue without having to spend a lot of money on the bigger hits. Plus, I don't see how some of these cards will fit in a Wal-Mart or Target. I just don't see a Sons of Anarchy or Breaking Bad set going over too well with those two, especially Wal-Mart. And then you have sets like Pacific Rim, Revenge, and others, that don't really go too deep into the lexicon of our culture like Big Bang Theory and Walking Dead do. I think this is a way to ensure that they sell out of each product on their end and they can control the flow and pricing of each set as they hit.

Like I said before, this could go either way, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think this will help end collectors who want to buy their product at a reasonable price. May sell out quickly, but it gives more people a chance at a box of one of their hotter products.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:44 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Thank you Jon for supporting my original assertion regarding who the distribution change might actually impact.

Acquiring licenses like The Hobbit and producing retail versions of their popular products suggests they are going to be ramping up production numbers.
I am not sure what I am supporting -- whatever it is it isn't intentional -- this change potentially impacts nearly everyone, the consumers and the small businesses consumers buy from -- While I wasn't buying direct, I know the dealer I work with frequently was so even though I am not a direct customer I am impacted.

Regardless that wasn't the point I was trying to make -- my point was that the product comparisons weren't like comparisons due to massive inequality in production size, even when factoring in potential growth -- the retail distribution channel is already different, so that won't even come into play here at all. . . and history has shown that hobby releases don't support the kind of production runs that compare to the other merchandise that was mentioned -- not even close.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:10 PM   #54 (permalink)
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On their blog NSU just posted an interview with Scott Gaeta about their distribution changes:

More On Cryptozoic’s Entertainment Card Distribution Restructuring Non-Sport & Entertainment Trading Card News from Non-Sport Update
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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lol at dave and adam not price gouging
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #56 (permalink)
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lol at dave and adam not price gouging
It could be said that if they do price gouge, they could lost their license to sell the cards. Dave and Adams is not the only game in town. We don't know the real reason behind Cryptozoic doing this, but if part of it is to have better end-user connection, I doubt they would let them charge whatever they wanted on a hot product. Also, Dave and Adam's did take pre-orders on Walking Dead Series 2 at about $80 a box for a fair amount of time. Something that a lot of other places never did.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:18 PM   #57 (permalink)
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It could be said that if they do price gouge, they could lost their license to sell the cards. Dave and Adams is not the only game in town. We don't know the real reason behind Cryptozoic doing this, but if part of it is to have better end-user connection, I doubt they would let them charge whatever they wanted on a hot product. Also, Dave and Adam's did take pre-orders on Walking Dead Series 2 at about $80 a box for a fair amount of time. Something that a lot of other places never did.
well i was direct with Crypto so to go from wholesale to retail pricing would be a tough pill to swallow, and there is no way i'd be doing it for the other releases. so it will be interesting to see what happens if i buy ten cases of everything else (vampire diaries, fringe, etc.) at wholesale pricing and then get the retail rate for WD or get cut to five cases, for instance. THAT is what is happening now with distributors - it will be interesting to see if Crypto can put an end to it, and it's not just D/A doing it either.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:17 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I am not sure what I am supporting -- whatever it is it isn't intentional -- this change potentially impacts nearly everyone, the consumers and the small businesses consumers buy from -- While I wasn't buying direct, I know the dealer I work with frequently was so even though I am not a direct customer I am impacted.

Regardless that wasn't the point I was trying to make -- my point was that the product comparisons weren't like comparisons due to massive inequality in production size, even when factoring in potential growth -- the retail distribution channel is already different, so that won't even come into play here at all. . . and history has shown that hobby releases don't support the kind of production runs that compare to the other merchandise that was mentioned -- not even close.
Jon - Have you already been told your price is going up? Or is that yet to be determined and all you know for sure is that your dealer will have to purchase through a distributor?

I'm happy to hear some suitable examples of shorter production products that are typically distributed nationwide directly from the manufacturer. All I'm reading is that I'm wrong and I chose poorly, but no counterexamples. Fact of the matter is very few trading card companies still service consumers directly.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:20 PM   #59 (permalink)
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well i was direct with Crypto so to go from wholesale to retail pricing would be a tough pill to swallow, and there is no way i'd be doing it for the other releases. so it will be interesting to see what happens if i buy ten cases of everything else (vampire diaries, fringe, etc.) at wholesale pricing and then get the retail rate for WD or get cut to five cases, for instance. THAT is what is happening now with distributors - it will be interesting to see if Crypto can put an end to it, and it's not just D/A doing it either.
Tim - Did somebody say D&A doesn't price gouge? Surely they do, especially once quantities get low. What I read was that BO leads the pack in price gouging, not that D&A was innocent. D&A is also the largest trading card retailer in the world, so it is really not a wise decision to cut them out. That is like my company not selling its product to WalMart.

I thought the point of distributors was that they are 'wholesale distributors' meaning they buy up tons of product to sell it to smaller retailers allowing those retailers to offer competitive prices to the major chain retailers? Does it not work that way for trading cards?
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:41 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I thought the point of distributors was that they are 'wholesale distributors' meaning they buy up tons of product to sell it to smaller retailers allowing those retailers to offer competitive prices to the major chain retailers? Does it not work that way for trading cards?
No, it does not. The traffic flow is card company>distributor>retailer (in many different forms)>consumer. Many of us who have been around for a while and buy in volume purchase as a retailer. Major chain retailers typically buy from indemendant marketing groups, usually only paying for merchandise that gets scanned at the point of sale.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:47 PM   #61 (permalink)
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The traffic flow is card company>distributor>retailer (in many different forms)>consumer. Many of us who have been around for a while and buy in volume purchase as a retailer.
So why the perspective that you would now be forced to purchase as a 'consumer' verses continuing to purchase as a 'retailer' from one of the distributors?
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:03 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I'm happy to hear some suitable examples of shorter production products that are typically distributed nationwide directly from the manufacturer. All I'm reading is that I'm wrong and I chose poorly, but no counterexamples. Fact of the matter is very few trading card companies still service consumers directly.
As I said initially I don't want to get into this discussion.

I was just pointing out that the production runs of the products you were comparing to are many times greater than what Crypto is producing, so using those products as a comparison to items people don't buy from the manufacturer isn't a good comparison.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:25 PM   #63 (permalink)
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So why the perspective that you would now be forced to purchase as a 'consumer' verses continuing to purchase as a 'retailer' from one of the distributors?
Because, in business, one has relationships built up that do not change...like a distributor that you purchase cards through.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Because, in business, one has relationships built up that do not change...like a distributor that you purchase cards through.
So its not as much that you think you are going to have to pay more, as you think your business has been taken for granted? Maybe I'm not saying it right, but I expect you know what I mean.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:36 PM   #65 (permalink)
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So why the perspective that you would now be forced to purchase as a 'consumer' verses continuing to purchase as a 'retailer' from one of the distributors?
I'll cut the #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@.

It's volume based. Now that someone is forced to go to a distributor - it doesn't mean you are getting top notch pricing. Not everyone can purchase the amount of products that it takes, before you start getting discounts from a distributors or become something like a "preferred" buyer.

I may want 10-20 cases of a products, but when I'm not constantly placing orders every month - I'm really a no body to a distributor. That's why "retailers" or "breakers" make relationship with suppliers. These are people who regularly purchase from a distributor and are able to get better pricing than we would be able to - all because of bulk purchasing. Now that we've eliminated this chain - cost will rise for those that probably weren't already going this route (that's an assumption).
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:52 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I got my stuff from cujobyte, and I'm guessing this will affect his ability to get the same pricing he got before. I hadn't really planned on buying many cases for the rest of the year, but now I don't think I'll be picking up any CZE cases. Will have to look on the secondary market for singles which may be bare since some of the big case openers may not be opening as much.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:28 AM   #67 (permalink)
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It seems very strange to me that no one from Crypto has posted on here to clarify things. It's not like there are tons of trading card forums out there to comb through, and BO is certainly one of the biggest.

Why make collectors and retailers squirm over whats really happening? Because poor customer service is Cryptozoic's M.O. THAT is where the real problem is.

I could be wrong though. There is at least one poster on here that is acting like someone who works for crypto....
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:21 AM   #68 (permalink)
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I'm no trading card insider, but I think the reasoning behind the change was between the lines of that NSU interview (emphasis mine):

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For the hottest product we will have more control in making sure it goes to the dealers that are supporting the entire line. We think this is a very good thing for collectors.
Quote:
This program is still evolving but to start we chose online storefronts that have a history of supporting our entire line, providing excellent customer service, and who want to work with us to grow the non sport category.
So, just a wild guess, but I'm thinking in exchange for exclusivity of the hot stuff, these dealers have agreed to take on all of their products at a certain level. Maybe there were some hurt feelings from the distributors who were doing this before, but weren't getting the hot stuff at a level they felt happy with. Or maybe these were the only distributors who felt okay with taking on that deal.

And for all we know, this may have something to do with new licenses they really obtained or will be trying to obtain in the near future (Marvel). Maybe they wanted to see some guaranteed levels of production that would be out in the market at a certain price point.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:29 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm no trading card insider, but I think the reasoning behind the change was between the lines of that NSU interview (emphasis mine):





So, just a wild guess, but I'm thinking in exchange for exclusivity of the hot stuff, these dealers have agreed to take on all of their products at a certain level. Maybe there were some hurt feelings from the distributors who were doing this before, but weren't getting the hot stuff at a level they felt happy with. Or maybe these were the only distributors who felt okay with taking on that deal.

And for all we know, this may have something to do with new licenses they really obtained or will be trying to obtain in the near future (Marvel). Maybe they wanted to see some guaranteed levels of production that would be out in the market at a certain price point.
That is absolutely one of the major reasons for doing something like this. It guarantees them to sell out their products that don't have strong preorders that would, typically, end up having to be discounted to sell off remaining product at the distributor level. It's exactly how allotments work for sportscards and it's exactly what they want to do with their stuff. Buy, say, 100 cases of Topps football, you get to order, say, 25 cases of Topps Five Star. That's not an accurate representation I'd imagine (4:1 ratio) but you get the idea. Those that buy the "junk" get first shot at the highest allotment possible for the hot stuff.

Now, here's the issue that will arise with this type of structure. It's the same as what happens with sportscards... eventually the people forced to purchase the less desirable products start selling off those products at, or below cost, just to be able to cash in on the hot properties later. So, you'll have plenty of something people aren't too interested in available at a great price then, you'll have stuff like BBT, TWD and others that will not be available for less than $20/box or $150/case over distributor costs.

This is exactly my concern. It happens in sports cards. Every. Year. It already happens to distributors and, now, it's going to be multiplied because these few will be forced to absorb even larger amounts of less desirable product in order to maintain competitiveness with the hot products.

I get it... it's guaranteed cash flow for CZE and sell outs of stuff that normally might not... at least not right away. Cool. I'm just concerned that it'll end up exactly as it is in the sports card market. Collectors get absolutely reamed on top tier products because, unless you've got a hookup, those products are the way they finally get to recoup losses and/or make good money on the markup.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:17 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Also, keep in mind that FULL LINE would include World of Warcraft along with any other roll playing games they put out.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #71 (permalink)
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It seems very strange to me that no one from Crypto has posted on here to clarify things. It's not like there are tons of trading card forums out there to comb through, and BO is certainly one of the biggest.
Well it looks like when somebody reached out to them, they responded.

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I could be wrong though. There is at least one poster on here that is acting like someone who works for crypto....
...

Seems like an awfully passive statement, since the internet is the only place you can say whatever the #@#@#@#@ you want and not be held accountable for it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:43 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Also, keep in mind that FULL LINE would include World of Warcraft along with any other roll playing games they put out.
This is not correct. The interview specifically addresses this, and indicates that games are not a part of this distribution change (quote from the interview: "I saw someone comment that sale of our non-sport would now be tied to a dealers purchases of our games. That has never been the case and never will be.").
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:10 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Then I stand corrected, but it is still tied to titles that one would look at as "losers" when not buying for their own enjoyment...CBLDF, The Guild, Tarzan, Alphas, all of the DC titles for example. A quick look at the search "cryptozoic box -dead -bang" will tell the tale on the secondary market for most of their products.

I don't know about any of you but I can not afford to lose money or barely break even on a bunch of titles that I know will be duds ahead of time for the oppertunity to be allocated on the hottest ones. This is not sports cards, collectors won't buy a box of something that they are not interested in just because it is sitting on the proverbial shelf.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:16 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I have to agree. A vast majority of their titles are, garbage. And, I sure would not buy anything that is not related to a show or actual actor/actress that I enjoy watching. I do think some of their licensing/cards are garbage and a waste of cardboard. Tarzan? CBLDF? Superman? Really?? I like Superman (if Tom Welling is the one playing), but A LOT of their product is something I would not be interested in spending/investing my hard-earned money on.

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Then I stand corrected, but it is still tied to titles that one would look at as "losers" when not buying for their own enjoyment...CBLDF, The Guild, Tarzan, Alphas, all of the DC titles for example. A quick look at the search "cryptozoic box -dead -bang" will tell the tale on the secondary market for most of their products.

I don't know about any of you but I can not afford to lose money or barely break even on a bunch of titles that I know will be duds ahead of time for the oppertunity to be allocated on the hottest ones. This is not sports cards, collectors won't buy a box of something that they are not interested in just because it is sitting on the proverbial shelf.
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I got my stuff from cujobyte, and I'm guessing this will affect his ability to get the same pricing he got before. I hadn't really planned on buying many cases for the rest of the year, but now I don't think I'll be picking up any CZE cases. Will have to look on the secondary market for singles which may be bare since some of the big case openers may not be opening as much.
Hey peeps!

Still away on vacation, but I will not be effected. I had split orders up last year, incase something like this would eventually happen.
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