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Old 07-14-2013, 11:49 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Someone should gather up all those monkeys and have a bonfire with them. And they need to post a video of it on youtube.
No, what they need to do is slab 'em and insert them in the next LOTR release as "Mathom" chase cards.....
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:10 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I'm pretty taken back by this comment. Its one thing when your box hit is a worthless sketch, but when it comes to commissioned PSCs you usually get what you pay for or much more. Are we talking about PSCs commissioned from experienced sketch card artists? Or are we talking about $5-$10 PSCs commissioned from an artist you've never heard of or seen their work?

In my experience, when commissioning a PSC from an experienced sketch card artist the finished product is representative of their work. On the other hand, I also attend a lot of local conventions (large and small) and there are always artists advertising sketch cards for $5-$10. You see the same thing on eBay. Those cards tend to be hit or miss, and yes some of them have gone into the garbage.

All I'm saying is I don't complain when all I get is what I paid for. I'd like a better understanding of what it is that you are complaining about. Also, you should update the 'sketch card commission feedback' thread with the names of these artists and examples of the 'paper shredder worthy' work so that other board members don't make the same mistake.
Some are from no name artists, and some are from well known artists. Its just sometimes when the artists and I collaborate, the idea for the card goes wrong. Some artists say they understand what your talking about, and they really don't. I cant fully blame the artists, its partially my fault too. Most artists have a policy that if you don't like the finished product, you don't have to pay for it. But I always pay for a commission weather I like it or not. I guess its because I feel that the artist tried. As far as names, lets just say that the highest piece of art ive destroyed cost me $150.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:26 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Some are from no name artists, and some are from well known artists. Its just sometimes when the artists and I collaborate, the idea for the card goes wrong. Some artists say they understand what your talking about, and they really don't. I cant fully blame the artists, its partially my fault too. Most artists have a policy that if you don't like the finished product, you don't have to pay for it. But I always pay for a commission weather I like it or not. I guess its because I feel that the artist tried. As far as names, lets just say that the highest piece of art ive destroyed cost me $150.
This I don't understand. You don't like it, that's fine, but someone out there WILL. Toss it on eBay, list it in the B/S/T forum, something. You get part of your money back for something else, and someone out there will have a piece of art they will enjoy.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:30 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Some are from no name artists, and some are from well known artists. Its just sometimes when the artists and I collaborate, the idea for the card goes wrong. Some artists say they understand what your talking about, and they really don't. I cant fully blame the artists, its partially my fault too. Most artists have a policy that if you don't like the finished product, you don't have to pay for it. But I always pay for a commission weather I like it or not. I guess its because I feel that the artist tried. As far as names, lets just say that the highest piece of art ive destroyed cost me $150.
The sucks. In my monthly fun budget, $150 would be a pretty devastating loss. When I commission a card, I usually don't have anything very specific besides the character in mind. If I am after something specific I make sure to work with an artist I trust, and that I know will be patient with me throughout the process. I may even ask to approve the pencils before it gets inked and things like that. Sometimes it slows the process down, but most artists seem to be more than happy to oblige. If they are not, then I'm not going to do really specific requests with them.

I would agree with Death. Unless these are themes you are ashamed to have requested, I'd think you could find a better home for a $150 sketch card than the garbage can. However, if $150 isn't much to you and destroying it makes you feel good, go nuts!
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:16 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Pulled a Robert Hack from Red Sonja that was one of my worst sketches. Not for the quality of the art, but the card itself was beat to hell. (Creases, back damaged) Although, I've had a few other cards from him that exhibit similiar damage so, must be a result of how he draws or he puts some type of adhesive on the back to hold it while drawing which damages it. Or, he just draws really angry.

I'd mention Waterhouse, but I think that horse has been beaten. Plus, I'm more pissed at Topps for commissioning an artist to do that many and thinking it was a smart idea.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:35 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Pulled a Robert Hack from Red Sonja that was one of my worst sketches. Not for the quality of the art, but the card itself was beat to hell. (Creases, back damaged) Although, I've had a few other cards from him that exhibit similiar damage so, must be a result of how he draws or he puts some type of adhesive on the back to hold it while drawing which damages it. Or, he just draws really angry.

I'd mention Waterhouse, but I think that horse has been beaten. Plus, I'm more pissed at Topps for commissioning an artist to do that many and thinking it was a smart idea.
Well then, I suppose 'Hack' is an appropriate last name for him...
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:01 AM   #57 (permalink)
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having not pulled many sketches, this one has always bothered me because of the writing. everything is written off center, uneven lettering, and on a slant.

Of course all art is subjective, and I would say that Laura is a very talented lady who produces some great art for our sets. Please drop me an email Glen and we will find a solution for you
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Well then, I suppose 'Hack' is an appropriate last name for him...
No way, Robert's work is top notch. If he has to beat up the card a bit to get the desired effect, then so be it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:25 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #60 (permalink)
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No way, Robert's work is top notch. If he has to beat up the card a bit to get the desired effect, then so be it.
Ted's right. Robert Hack is a total professional who never misses a deadline and always comes up with something creative. Bends and creases are just sometimes part of the process. One day he will sell me one of his IDW comic covers!
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:51 PM   #61 (permalink)
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No way, Robert's work is top notch. If he has to beat up the card a bit to get the desired effect, then so be it.
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Ted's right. Robert Hack is a total professional who never misses a deadline and always comes up with something creative. Bends and creases are just sometimes part of the process. One day he will sell me one of his IDW comic covers!
I googled, I learned the truth. Nice cards!:

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:06 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Picked up a box of Upper Deck Iron Man 2 at the Philly NSCS this past weekend. Opened it today and found both the best and worst sketch cards I've ever pulled from packs. Anyway... About time I've had a card I felt was worthy for this thread



No idea who the artist is.
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:14 PM   #63 (permalink)
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That would be this guy David W. Mack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:00 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Thanks Iggy. The fact that he has an actual comic resume, including cover work, really annoys me. Too bad he doesn't have such a resume that even this piece of crap is valuable.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I think that if the artists are willing to accept an assignment, they should put 100% into their sketch card work. There are tons of other talented artists out there who would kill for the chance to work on a set. I don't understand why 1). artists feel that they are above putting 100% into their card work; and 2). artists take on too large a workload so that the quality of their work suffers (more money, I know, but still). It's shameful.

Artists should realize that 'sketch cards' have evolved from just simple sketches to the art cards you see today. The 'art card' is now what is expected from set directors and collectors. What may have sufficed in the early 90s - a quick doodle - is NOT sufficient today.
As someone who has been a freelance illustrator for 8 years (mostly in the editorial field), I have to agree with this - you HAVE to give 100% effort EVERY TIME you accept a job. Pay can't be an excuse when you know what you're getting up front. DON'T accept the job then complain about not being paid enough or being too busy. Nothing will get you black-listed from a company (or industry) than doing half-arse work which is turned in late.

The Mars Attacks (and the upcoming Star Wars release) are my first time working on sketch cards and I'll be honest - the pay is NOWHERE what I usually get with editorial jobs, but I chose to accept them knowing the time/effort put into the cards was not going to match the $$$. I'm lucky I've had the time to complete the workload (which hasn't been easy BTW), but I'm proud of my work so far and hope everyone who spend their $$$ on the sets feel the same way.

But my point is I can't imagine giving a half-effort on a job, rushing the final (because I wasn't being paid enough) then having my name attached to it. Hard work and pride are more important than talent.

Anyway......rant over.....
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:57 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Forget the people you hate to pull, even the ones you'll settle for, think of the number of cards you've pulled that justified the price of a box for you and made you happy - then think about how many of those people you've then gone directly to and given money. If you're like most, it's not very many. And the rest of us have piles of blank APs and piles of bills to weigh against that dream everyone force-feeds about a gateway to better things.
I've been thinking about this since I read it. . . I love the sentiment, and I was relating it to my own experience. . . I am not one who commissions often -- I've tried three times, and been 'successful' twice. . . I have successful in quotes because even with successful commissions I've had issues.

Attempt 1: Artist told me upfront they wanted to be paid immediately, but wouldn't be able to start my cards for several months. I passed, and now some collectors have been waiting for a year plus for cards from them. . .

Attempt 2: Commissioned 3 cards, which were awesome, commissioned 3 more cards and the 2nd batch were clearly rushed compared to the first batch. . .

Attempt 3: Cards arrived in flimsy packaging -- Out of 4 cards 1 card was creased and another was bent by the PO. Also turn around took 4 months.

The point (and it's probably actually a point for a different thread), is that commissioning cards is a bit of a minefield. . . I will rarely commission cards. . . and it's not that I don't want to support the artists, or that I'm not willing to pay their asking price. . . it's risky to pay up front. . . you might not like the card when it is done. . . and even if you do like the card not all artists pack their work in a way that protects it from the post office. . .

I'd much rather buy an AP that is already done that I can look at and pick the one(s) I like best.

Certainly not everyone will agree with me. . . but if you are sitting on a pile of APs you might want to try to just draw something and sell it. . . obviously that has risks too. . .

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Old 09-26-2013, 11:05 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I've been thinking about this since I read it. . . I love the sentiment, and I was relating it to my own experience. . . I am not one who commissions often -- I've tried three times, and been 'successful' twice. . . I have successful in quotes because even with successful commissions I've had issues.

Attempt 1: Artist told me upfront they wanted to be paid immediately, but wouldn't be able to start my cards for several months. I passed, and now some collectors have been waiting for a year plus for cards from them. . .

Attempt 2: Commissioned 3 cards, which were awesome, commissioned 3 more cards and the 2nd batch were clearly rushed compared to the first batch. . .

Attempt 3: Cards arrived in flimsy packaging -- Out of 4 cards 1 card was creased and another was bent by the PO. Also turn around took 4 months.

The point (and it's probably actually a point for a different thread), is that commissioning cards is a bit of a minefield. . . I will rarely commission cards. . . and it's not that I don't want to support the artists, or that I'm not willing to pay their asking price. . . it's risky to pay up front. . . you might not like the card when it is done. . . and even if you do like the card not all artists pack their work in a way that protects it from the post office. . .

I'd much rather buy an AP that is already done that I can look at and pick the one(s) I like best.

Certainly not everyone will agree with me. . . but if you are sitting on a pile of APs you might want to try to just draw something and sell it. . . obviously that has risks too. . .

Jon
With my editorial work, I ALWAYS get sketches approved (usually 2 rounds - a very rough pencil followed by a tightened pencil) by the art director (and in the sketch card case....the buyer) before proceeding. This way, there's no confusion or surprises on how the final will turn out.

Another way you can do payment in lieu of paying 100% up front is to pay in thirds - 1/3 at completion of sketches, 1/3 after inking and 1/3 after delivery of finals. I've worked on some childrens books and this is how we did the payments.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:12 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Doing 100 percent on a job is all relative. If the type of art required by the AD is something simple are you going to go all out with a fully rendered and painted piece of renaissance type art? Course not. Doing 100 percent for some is based solely on how much pay they get. Topps pays 1.50 so 100 percent for 1.50 is one of these scribbles to some artists.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:28 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Doing 100 percent on a job is all relative. If the type of art required by the AD is something simple are you going to go all out with a fully rendered and painted piece of renaissance type art? Course not. Doing 100 percent for some is based solely on how much pay they get. Topps pays 1.50 so 100 percent for 1.50 is one of these scribbles to some artists.
Of course it's all relative and in no way was I trying to compare skill levels, mediums, or styles. Inherently, sketches will take less time than oil paintings. Luckily, I don't do oils.

My only comment was to anyone who said they'd put less effort into a job because of time or pay....no matter they're skill level, style, or medium. I will never accept a job if I'm dissatisfied with something or don't think I can complete it with my (personal) best effort. At the minimum, I'll try to talk to the art director about my concerns and if they're willing to negotiate. If they're not, then I have to weigh the positives/negatives of taking said job. Either way, they'll get my best.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:26 AM   #70 (permalink)
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I've commissioned a lot of full sized 11x17 stuff, but I've only commissioned a few PSCs. So far, I've had nothing but good experiences with them...well, the ones I've received anyway. I'm still waiting on 3, but I have no reason to think they won't be just as good.

Personally, I kinda prefer commissions because I can get what I want, and because my favorite characters are mostly the 'lower tier' that it is harder to find. I mean, look around for Wild Dog art...it's mostly non-existent.

Of course, in most cases commissions are a more cost effective way to get a piece of art from an artist I really like. Paying a few hundred dollars for an Ebas commission is much easier on the wallet than paying dealer and ebay prices his stuff commands.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Of course it's all relative and in no way was I trying to compare skill levels, mediums, or styles. Inherently, sketches will take less time than oil paintings. Luckily, I don't do oils.

My only comment was to anyone who said they'd put less effort into a job because of time or pay....no matter they're skill level, style, or medium. I will never accept a job if I'm dissatisfied with something or don't think I can complete it with my (personal) best effort. At the minimum, I'll try to talk to the art director about my concerns and if they're willing to negotiate. If they're not, then I have to weigh the positives/negatives of taking said job. Either way, they'll get my best.
Exactly.

Regardless of one's skill level, they should always give 100% if they want their reputation as a good artist, as well as their standing as a trustworthy worker, to remain in tact. Otherwise, don't accept the job.

Sure, there are artists who are insanely talented who are capable of taking on a large workload and still produce high quality. I think we know who many of these artists are, and some even post here on BO and have posted on this thread. However, there are those who are otherwise talented, but they feel that it's okay to create rushed work for a set while agreeing to do 1,000 cards, either for a paycheck or to help the company reach its desired numbers. This is why people like Shum have developed the reputation that they have, and why collectors are upset when they pull one of his cards.

I'm currently working on 3 releases with pretty good pay rates - one due in mid October and the others in late November - but they're spaced out in a way that will allow for my best efforts to show. If I accepted all 3 and they had the same mid October deadline, and I only had a month to complete them all, then my quality would suffer, and I'd risk taking a hit to my reputation (which is still in its nascent stage, as I've barely been doing sketch card sets for less than a year). Not even the decent pay would be worth me putting out mediocre work, just for the privilege of padding my resume and collecting a paycheck. Maybe I see things differently because I have a full-time career and do this for fun (and a little extra $ on the side), as opposed to being a full-time artist, but I value my skills too much to risk getting negative feedback. I think this is important for artists to consider- are you willing to risk receiving criticism and snide comments in exchange for putting out mediocre work?
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