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Old 10-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default buying art etiquette

How long after you purchase art from an artist can you resell it and not come off as rude? or maybe it could be a good thing for the artist?

viceroy kezele from perfumeinc | eBay

I could be wrong, but I thought Gary sold these himself on ebay not too log ago, for much less.

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Old 10-03-2013, 04:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Unless you got some special deal from the artist by saying this would stay in your collection forever, I don't think you have any obligation to not sell what you buy from an artist. In this case, it's not even like the person commissioned the pieces, so I don't think there's any reason to feel bad about it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't see the harm in reselling artwork. In fact, the artist might see it as a compliment if you're selling it at a much higher rate.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah i highly doubt that. Hell as you get it in the mail you can list it on ebay. Why even ask the question?
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yeah i highly doubt that. Hell as you get it in the mail you can list it on ebay. Why even ask the question?
Are you kidding? People put things on Ebay before they even receive them.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are you kidding? People put things on Ebay before they even receive them.
Hahahahaha Yeah....
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I believe the single card is an AP, but that puzzle was pack inserted and was resold on eBay after being pulled the week Space was released. Pretty sure there's a thread in here showing the pull.

Here's that thread, pulled by wiltiger7
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah, I don't see the harm in reselling artwork. In fact, the artist might see it as a compliment if you're selling it at a much higher rate.
If you buy it from the artist and immediately try to flip it for more I guarantee you that the artist won't see it as a compliment There are pros that stopped doing con sketches for that exact reason.

The rest is all subjective. Collectors are allowed to resell; artists are allowed to be insulted. Neither are generally right or wrong. I've helped collectors get the best price possible in some situations and I've made special note of people I would never sell to again in others.
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Old 10-03-2013, 06:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am of the opinion that if you own something, it is yours to do with as you please.

If you want to commission a sketch, just because you think you can flip it quickly for the profit, its your prerogative to do so. I do not support this behavior, and I certainly don't practice it, but I also don't feel the need to impose my own personal opinions/beliefs/behaviors onto other individuals. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Larry Welz was selling PSCs on his website for $25 each until somebody bought them all up and resold them on eBay at auction (mixed in with licensed 5finity Cherry cards, when the release was still hot) which resulted in Larry doubling his prices on his website. In this case, all LW/Cherry collectors suffered because of the actions of one greedy individual.

I've commissioned pieces at conventions and gotten the offhanded comment from the artist about expecting to see the piece on eBay soon after. First of all, it offends me and really makes me regret commissioning the piece in the first place. I've never sold a piece I commissioned. Regardless, IT IS MINE and I'll do with it as I please. The artist agreed to the price with no obligations attached, and should keep his comments to himself. So unprofessional.

Here is a hypothetical. I'm at NY Comic Con on Friday, and there is an artist doing PSCs in artist alley for $10 each. I look at a couple he (or she) has done, and I think that I could easily sell them for $25 each, so I request 10. He (or she) gladly accepts my money and begins working the cards. I collect the cards at the end of the day, take pictures, and list them on eBay for $30BIN/BO. They all sell for $20 - $30 by the end of the day on Saturday. I see the artist on Sunday, and the artist is well aware of what went down... The artist is upset. Why? They asked $10, and I paid $10. I did not lie to them, or ask them to give me a special price. I'm open to hearing many reasons, however, the one that comes to mind is that they feel taken advantage of. When I really think about, I think they are mostly upset with themself for allowing that to happen, and are projecting that onto somebody else who really has done nothing wrong. After all, greed is human nature... Right? How is this really any different than buying some grading comic books at a good price and then flipping them?

Okay, let the fireworks begin.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Meh, wipe your ass with it it's yours.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Okay, let the fireworks begin.
So... if it were anyone else I'd skip out on this one, but it's you so I know that we both understand the difference between a flamewar and a debate

The reason that convention buys, in particular, are a hot button issue for artists is in the expectation. Back before everyone was a reporter, photographer and now prospector because they have a cell phone conventions were about the fans. The geeks went to the conventions... not the random locals who knew the distant fans would pay exorbitant prices for con exclusives. The vendors, the sellers, were in their designated area selling their official stuff and the fans came to your table. Artists didn't even consider the fact that people would be there for any reason other than to, yannno, interact with them. Because the artists wanted to connect with the fans they gave them convention deals. Hell, back in the day you could get FREE sketches.

The particular person requesting art did not make any kind of contract, but the understanding the artist was working under was that they were having a... moment? memory? something... with someone who appreciated them. They were taking a hit, basically, because the respect and feel-goods made up the difference.

In the everyday world, if you have something it won't technically hurt you to part with that you know a friend really wants, don't you often give them that thing without expectation beyond that they enjoy it? And wouldn't it, in most cases, offend you if the person you gifted decided that the monetary value outweighed the sentimental value and the intent and sold your thing? A lot of message board types will say "no" just to be contrary, but I don't believe that for a minute. You liked your thing, you completely understood that your thing had value and you, yes, freely chose to ignore those considerations and give it away. Because of that particular situation. That's on you, totally, but you still feel like crap for overvaluing the connection.

So, no, the buyer owes the artist nothing. In business, they'd say there was no contract because there was no "meeting of the minds" before the work was done. That doesn't change the fact that the artist feels betrayed by giving a deal to someone they thought respected them who actually turned out to not care about them at all. The artist could be anyone and as long as that person thought they could profit they'd be asking for the art.


For other art? I suppose I'd thank the buyer/seller for letting me know that I was undervaluing my work. It wouldn't continue to happen and I wouldn't feel bad about letting prospective buyers know why, either. There are some people - repeat buyers, vocal proponents, collectors I have gotten to know at least casually, etc. - who have received breaks and deals from me and if those people put their commissions up for sale without a good reason they would never happen again, either. I already refuse freebies and massive discounts, I learned those lessons more than a decade ago. Sometimes I catch myself trying to justify "doing something nice" for someone and I have to nip that impulse. It makes me feel bad... and greedy, even, but I know where that leads. And why should I feel greedy for reserving the right to the money for my work for myself, when everyone else is allowed to profit off me guilt-free? Yeah, no.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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So... if it were anyone else I'd skip out on this one, but it's you so I know that we both understand the difference between a flamewar and a debate
This definitely goes the way of immature name calling and typing lots of stuff in capital letters.

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The reason that convention buys, in particular, are a hot button issue for artists is in the expectation. Back before everyone was a reporter, photographer and now prospector because they have a cell phone conventions were about the fans. The geeks went to the conventions... not the random locals who knew the distant fans would pay exorbitant prices for con exclusives. The vendors, the sellers, were in their designated area selling their official stuff and the fans came to your table. Artists didn't even consider the fact that people would be there for any reason other than to, yannno, interact with them. Because the artists wanted to connect with the fans they gave them convention deals. Hell, back in the day you could get FREE sketches.

The particular person requesting art did not make any kind of contract, but the understanding the artist was working under was that they were having a... moment? memory? something... with someone who appreciated them. They were taking a hit, basically, because the respect and feel-goods made up the difference.
Back in the day was back in the day. Not something I'm interested in or knowledgeable about, because I've only been collecting for two years. Nowadays, every artist has uses social media just as much as every 'fan' does. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, deviantART, blogs, forums, etc... I agree, I would be upset if I gave something to a friend and they turned around and sold it. However, I think it is naive for the artist in this situation to think they made some sort of personal connection with the person they just met, and that is the reason they bought something from them.

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In the everyday world, if you have something it won't technically hurt you to part with that you know a friend really wants, don't you often give them that thing without expectation beyond that they enjoy it? And wouldn't it, in most cases, offend you if the person you gifted decided that the monetary value outweighed the sentimental value and the intent and sold your thing? A lot of message board types will say "no" just to be contrary, but I don't believe that for a minute. You liked your thing, you completely understood that your thing had value and you, yes, freely chose to ignore those considerations and give it away. Because of that particular situation. That's on you, totally, but you still feel like crap for overvaluing the connection.

So, no, the buyer owes the artist nothing. In business, they'd say there was no contract because there was no "meeting of the minds" before the work was done. That doesn't change the fact that the artist feels betrayed by giving a deal to someone they thought respected them who actually turned out to not care about them at all. The artist could be anyone and as long as that person thought they could profit they'd be asking for the art.
I think your the artist feels betrayed is the same as my the artist feels taken advantage of. I just think that deflecting that emotion at somebody else is the wrong way to go about it. They didn't wrong the artist. They paid the aritst his (or her) asking to complete a job. The artist completed the job, and is now upset because that person turned around and profited. This is kinda sorta how our entire economy is built.

At Philly NSCS, a dealer commissioned a PSC from Brent Engstrom of the promo card he did the art for, for the upcoming GPK BNS3 release. That card went immediately from Brent's hand into the dealers display for sale. If the dealer didn't commission that card, the net result is that Brent would have made $X less dollars at the show. Should Brent be upset that card is just being turned for a profit, or happy that he made $X more dollars at the show? I say he should be happy. The dealer took a risk. He may never sell that card, or may end up taking a loss. Brent, on the other hand, has already been paid his asking price and has no stake in the future of that card.

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For other art? I suppose I'd thank the buyer/seller for letting me know that I was undervaluing my work. It wouldn't continue to happen and I wouldn't feel bad about letting prospective buyers know why, either. There are some people - repeat buyers, vocal proponents, collectors I have gotten to know at least casually, etc. - who have received breaks and deals from me and if those people put their commissions up for sale without a good reason they would never happen again, either. I already refuse freebies and massive discounts, I learned those lessons more than a decade ago. Sometimes I catch myself trying to justify "doing something nice" for someone and I have to nip that impulse. It makes me feel bad... and greedy, even, but I know where that leads. And why should I feel greedy for reserving the right to the money for my work for myself, when everyone else is allowed to profit off me guilt-free? Yeah, no.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

You should absolutely not feel greedy about profiting off your services. However... You have some old 5finity AEs listed for $40 on your 'for sale' page. If somebody pays you $40 and then resells them for $80, you have no right to be upset at that person. If somebody gets you to doing them for $20 and then turns around and sells them for $50, then you *may* be entitled to be upset with them (depending on the negotiation tactics). All of these trading card manufacturers are already profiting off of you, but you agreed to the terms they offered and are not upset. If you agree to my terms, why are you upset with me for profiting off of you. Assume I didn't mislead you. If I actively mislead/deceived you, that is a different story.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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So nobody said 'Wait 'till he dies, it'll be worth more"...I won't say it either then.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I actually have the same question as the original poster. . . although in this case since they were sold on eBay I think there is a much lower standard of etiquette.

I have a few commissioned pieces that I've soured on in about the last year. . . I hate to publicly sell them as I wouldn't want to offend the artist and prevent myself getting more commissions from them one day (hopefully with a more pleasant result). . . so how long is long enough?

In a similar vein I have several pieces of art (and prints) that I've been given as freebies along with other purcahses . . . I always felt awkward/rude turning any of them down in person, and many were just shipped to me. . . So now I have a small stack of art and prints I really have no interest in having. . . How can I go about selling that without offending anyone?

This reminds me of an experience I had years ago -- I had a prized sketch in my collection that I had no interest in parting with. A collector begged me for months to trade it to him. I finally relented after repeated begging and being told it would be the 'crown jewel of his collection', and within days of receiving the card he put it up on eBay -- I was really ticked. To make matters worse the card didn't sell for what he expected it to -- so he emailed me and read the the riot act for 'ripping him off' after the auction ended. This is why I post very little of my collection online anymore. Any any rate -- I assume the aggravation I felt is similar to what an artist would feel seeing their commissions immediately flipped. . .
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Pish you guys are too wussified. What's all this weeping over sales? Whenever someone at a con tried to hand me freebies I flatly told em I'd tear it up and toss it so save the free crap. if it has no value to them aside from a promotional standpoint why foist it on me? May as well be reaching into a garbage can to hand me something.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've purchased stuff from artists online stores and gotten little freebies that came along with them. Nothing with any significant value, quick pencil PSCs or prints or something along those lines. I wouldn't call it garbage. I always thought of them as more of a "thank you" than a promotional item.

I have had artists at cons try to hand me signed prints that were just sloppy B&W photocopies. I don't think that is the type of stuff Jon is talking about.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If you bought it, the price was agreed upon between buyer and artist. Unless there's some kind of agreement, the buyer can do as they wish with their purchase. Just think about it this way - if someone was willing to pay more for your artwork, it's still ending up in the hands of someone who REALLY wants it. It's not really much different than drawing a pack-inserted card for a couple $$, someone pulls it from and sells it for $300.

Just know that there are artists who don't only view this as a business. I know that I'm ecstatic whenever somebody buys something from me. It is a bit of a bummer when you make that connection with the buyer only to have them turn right around and flip the item, but that's life.

I know I have a few items that were generously given to me (or however I obtained them) that aren't staples in my collection, but I'd feel really weird re-selling them.

The very first sketch card I ever pulled was a Boba Fett by John Watkins-Chow for SW 30th. While it was an AWESOME card, I couldn't pass up the sales opportunity (sold it for a lot!). I got to meet John at a convention later and I felt a little guilty about selling the card. I told him about it and he sounded pretty excited that I got what I did for it. I commissioned him to do a Galactus sketch card for me.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Pish you guys are too wussified. What's all this weeping over sales? Whenever someone at a con tried to hand me freebies I flatly told em I'd tear it up and toss it so save the free crap. if it has no value to them aside from a promotional standpoint why foist it on me? May as well be reaching into a garbage can to hand me something.
Not free crap in this case. . . most of it is stuff that the artist was giving me a thank you for spending a bunch of money . . . very kind, but not anything I collect -- several are large (11 x 14) original drawings. I feel strange selling this stuff , but I really don't have a place for them in my collection.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Not free crap in this case. . . most of it is stuff that the artist was giving me a thank you for spending a bunch of money . . . very kind, but not anything I collect -- several are large (11 x 14) original drawings. I feel strange selling this stuff , but I really don't have a place for them in my collection.
Give them to someone who collects the stuff? Or trade them?
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Is trading different than selling? If so, why is trading okay and selling not?
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:07 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Not free crap in this case. . . most of it is stuff that the artist was giving me a thank you for spending a bunch of money . . . very kind, but not anything I collect -- several are large (11 x 14) original drawings. I feel strange selling this stuff , but I really don't have a place for them in my collection.
I know where you can donate them...won't even cost you postage.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:45 AM   #22 (permalink)
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To introduce another related situation: over the past year I've been collecting I've won a few artist-run auctions for less than the artist expected the item to sell for and received messages from the artist about that. I think in some cases it was just a friendly "Hey, you got a good deal on that," but in a couple of cases it seemed they wanted me to feel bad about it.

I don't really appreciate the latter--if you put your stuff up for auction (even if it has a BIN option), you have entered into a gamble. As someone who used to sell a lot, I know how that can go with auction and sometimes I ate a big Twinkie on something that sold for 30-50% less than it "should" have based on other sales.

On the other hand, I will sometimes overpay an artist for a card that I like because I think the work is good and I want to support the artist. I've noticed that some (not all, definitely not Roy ) artists seem to be a little insecure about their work and if people like it. I think that's too bad in some cases where people do really good work and don't charge enough for it. On the other hand, I think sometimes artists (and I have one in mind here, but I'm not going to do a call out) get used to people being supportive and then lash out when that doesn't happen every time.

I get it's a hard gig and it's different than selling things you didn't create or are indifferent to. At the end of the day, if it's not fun for you just to create these and not worry so much about what people do after the pull them or buy them, maybe this part of the art industry isn't for you.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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It's business, What I get for what i sell is my business, what they do with the stuff I sell is their business. In fact when They resell for more than I sold even better then I can adjust my prices accordingly. Today someone sold one of my Galactic Files 2 Vehicle cards for over 400 bucks. So that gives me an indication I can draw more Vehicle cards for SW sets and maybe do a few APs with vehicles without worrying that they may not sell. It's all market research.
Just don't stand in front of Adam Hughes with a cel cam and take a pic and open an Ebay auction. He may get irked.

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Old 10-04-2013, 12:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Is trading different than selling? If so, why is trading okay and selling not?
I kinda meant trading to your buddies, not really a public deal that way. Trading dont seem as bad to me because your not really profiting neccesarily youre kinda like putting puzzle pieces in the right places. Ive gotten extra cards when I purchased on eBay which had nothing to do with what I purchased. I always either give or throw them away if my friend doesnt want them.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Trading dont seem as bad to me because your not really profiting neccesarily youre kinda like putting puzzle pieces in the right places.
That's the smartest thing I've ever read on these boards.
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