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Old 12-15-2008, 10:50 AM   #51 (permalink)
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So I guess its wrong for a state to woo a business to its borders? We should all run like Michigan and chase business out with our asinine policies and our punishing taxes.

The reason the tranny went at 85K was because the car was off the road for a year, most of them don't need replacing and since its under 100K warranty, they paid to do the whole thing so no big deal.
I happen to work for an automotive supplier in Michigan so I have first hand experience with that topic. The big 3 are in trouble mainly due to the union's affect on their companies. As a resident or Michigan, I would much rather have businesses pay higher taxes than individuals footing the bill.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:01 AM   #52 (permalink)
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The big 3 are in trouble mainly due to the union's affect on their companies.
Please explain this affect T.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:21 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Most significantly, President Bush has prevented a repeat of the deadly terrorist attacks that cost nearly 3,000 Americans their lives on 9/11/01. George W. Bush has kept America safe!

Didn't the attacks happen on his watch to begin with ? If you're going to give him all the post 9/11 credit then he and his staff deserve the pre 9/11 blame. Its like having rusty pipes and ignoring them til one cracks and your basement is flooded. Sure you can fix the damage AFTER the fact but had you not ignored the problem to begin with, you'd have saved yourself a lot of extra damage. Now you're not only replacing the pipes but the carpet, drywall and anything else damaged because you didn't take the time to fix the problem before hand.

I have no problem with you and Wheels being tried and true nationalists. I love many things about this country but the government is not one of them. For us to say we're bringing democracy to other countries is laughable. The leaders of this country forgot what democracy was a long long time ago.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:43 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Didn't the attacks happen on his watch to begin with ? If you're going to give him all the post 9/11 credit then he and his staff deserve the pre 9/11 blame. Its like having rusty pipes and ignoring them til one cracks and your basement is flooded. Sure you can fix the damage AFTER the fact but had you not ignored the problem to begin with, you'd have saved yourself a lot of extra damage. Now you're not only replacing the pipes but the carpet, drywall and anything else damaged because you didn't take the time to fix the problem before hand.

I have no problem with you and Wheels being tried and true nationalists. I love many things about this country but the government is not one of them. For us to say we're bringing democracy to other countries is laughable. The leaders of this country forgot what democracy was a long long time ago.
The problem was ignored WAAAAYYY before Bush ever stepped into office.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:46 AM   #55 (permalink)
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The problem was ignored WAAAAYYY before Bush ever stepped into office.
True, Clinton is much more to blame for 9/11 then Bush. But of course you could then also blame Bush Senior as well...and then the guys before that. If you watched or read Charlie Wilson's war you will see how we created and supplied Osama.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:03 PM   #56 (permalink)
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The problem was ignored WAAAAYYY before Bush ever stepped into office.
True but does his predecessor's ignorance have to be his as well ? Toby Keith refers to the attacks as a sucker punch in his song but I don't see it that way. I think it was more like hey USA we're going to kick your ass and we just went yeah yeah whatever. Arrogance was one of our country's fatal flaws.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:14 PM   #57 (permalink)
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True, Clinton is much more to blame for 9/11 then Bush. But of course you could then also blame Bush Senior as well...and then the guys before that. If you watched or read Charlie Wilson's war you will see how we created and supplied Osama.
wrong. we didn't create nor supply osama. we supplied the freedom fighters to stave off a russian invasion of Afghanistan. Osama fought in this war - true. But to say we created Osama is incorrect. by saying we created osama implies we directly and deliberately helped him wage war on us.

We indirectly fed his anger towards the West due to foreign policy during/after the Gulf War and during our involvment in Somalia.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:19 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Wow... I missed this whole thread till now!!

First off, and most importantly, that video and the others I have seen, are humorous, not in any means because of Bush being attacked, but from other factors. The idea of Bush being attacked, as our president is an outrage, and that I dont find funny at all. I too, dont like, or support him as president, but like sooooooooooo many other elections, he was the lesser of 2 evils to be in contention.
Back to the video. I find his reaction and the reaction of those around hilarious! Everyone was in shock and awe, and the secret service men, must have been napping! For the guy to throw a shoe, and have enough time to get off a second shoe and throw it, DAMN those SS just found themselves in the 6% unemployment line!

I will not go on any tagents about the president, nor president elect. IMO neither of them are going, nor did anything worthy of being a great President. I hope Obama proves me wrong, however we will see.

One thing that pissess me off though, is how stupid people are.... IF YOU think Right Wing or Left Wing, IMO you are an idiot. Neither side is always right, nor does either side have all the answers. In todays society, you have to be as unbiased, and in the middle as possible to see the reality of it all clearly.

As for helping other countries... We are AMERICA, and thats what makes us one of the top Country's in the World!! Our ability and willingness to help those in need. Others have stated we are unliked, which is never going to change in some places and by some people, but in other parts of the world, people can only dream and would give up anything to be a part of the USofA
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:38 PM   #59 (permalink)
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True, Clinton is much more to blame for 9/11 then Bush. But of course you could then also blame Bush Senior as well...and then the guys before that. If you watched or read Charlie Wilson's war you will see how we created and supplied Osama.
I agree, I blame them all!!
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:48 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Please explain this affect T.
The affect of wages, benefits, etc. for workers and retirees that got out of hand. It's hard for a company to remain competitive when they are paying their associates significantly more than their competitors. It also annoys me that the UAW doesn't seem to willing to budge in order to help reduce costs for the company's that employ their members.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:49 PM   #61 (permalink)
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As for helping other countries... We are AMERICA, and thats what makes us one of the top Country's in the World!! Our ability and willingness to help those in need.
Thats what pisses me and millions of others off about this country. We're willing to help others with food, medical care, housing etc. but ignore those in our own back yard. HTF can you justify giving people free medical treatment on foreign soil and turn away American families at American hospitals' ERs because they can't afford health insurance ?

I've said my peace. Its always interesting to read others views even if I don't agree with them. I don't think any less of anyone who doesn't share my views on government and country.

I know the US of A has some great advantages that many other countries do not. All I would like to see in the coming years is we, as a nation, fix our own problems before we give our attention to others. The American family should be our first priority since that was what this country was built on.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:58 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I agree with you Bambam, screw the rest of the world, after we give everybody food and shelter and medical treatment in our country, then we can go ahead and help as much as we can for the rest of the world. But we don't, and the amount of homeless in this country would get you sick, that is why I am so much against Oprah, screw Africa, there are so many black people in this country that need help much more in this country. Imagine if you were poor in America when this is supposed to be the wealthiest nation in the world and there are so many poor.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:17 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Thats what pisses me and millions of others off about this country. We're willing to help others with food, medical care, housing etc. but ignore those in our own back yard. HTF can you justify giving people free medical treatment on foreign soil and turn away American families at American hospitals' ERs because they can't afford health insurance ?

I've said my peace. Its always interesting to read others views even if I don't agree with them. I don't think any less of anyone who doesn't share my views on government and country.

I know the US of A has some great advantages that many other countries do not. All I would like to see in the coming years is we, as a nation, fix our own problems before we give our attention to others. The American family should be our first priority since that was what this country was built on.
You must have read my post wrong. I never said I didnt think we had to handle our own before others, however, our willingness to help while others wont is what sets us apart.
You will NEVER solve the problems in America though, because of our own laziness and lack of care. If we opened shelters for free food, you would still have those bitching that the food should be brought to them. If we opened free housing, people would bitch that its to far from work. If we offer jobs with no experience necessary, people would bitch it doesnt work for their schedule. This is not the whole of society, but more common than people want to recognize.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:20 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Thats what pisses me and millions of others off about this country. We're willing to help others with food, medical care, housing etc. but ignore those in our own back yard. HTF can you justify giving people free medical treatment on foreign soil and turn away American families at American hospitals' ERs because they can't afford health insurance ?

I've said my peace. Its always interesting to read others views even if I don't agree with them. I don't think any less of anyone who doesn't share my views on government and country.

I know the US of A has some great advantages that many other countries do not. All I would like to see in the coming years is we, as a nation, fix our own problems before we give our attention to others. The American family should be our first priority since that was what this country was built on.
Yeah, its funny. If you donate food, clothing, etc. to a country in need you are viewed in this country as a humanitarian, but do that same thing for people in this country, you are viewed a socialist (and I'm talking about the gov't here, not on a individual basis).

JBS, I'm not saying necessarily screw everyone but ourselves, if we have the extra resources to help out, then do it. I'm just saying take care of your own first, then look out for everybody else.

The attack on GWB was funny, he thought so too. He also was pretty quick to react. But an attack is just that, an attack and should be taken seriously. That could have easily been a gun, bomb, etc. I'm not even a fan of GWB, but should be view as an attack towards Americans.

Politics are certainly a divider, aren't they?
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:30 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Wow, next we should discuss something on religion...This is better than going to the barber shop....I'm just kidding....

Very interesting view points here from getting shoes thrown at you, the past and future president, the auto industry, yellow cake, and now donating....Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'm just going to keep mine to myself and let you all figure this all out.....I'll keep reading though
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:43 PM   #66 (permalink)
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The leaders of this country forgot what democracy was a long long time ago.
I like this statement and have to agree with it for the most part.

As far as the 9-11 attacks happening during GWB's watch...those were going to happen no matter who was President at the time. It's like buying a house and after 1 year of moving in you start to notice your wood flooring is starting to warp. Then you find out that it's because of flooding underneath your house from pipes that have been corroded for years and that the leak has been there for a very long time. It's not your fault, it was bound to happen. You were just in the right place at the wrong time.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:19 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Yeah, its funny. If you donate food, clothing, etc. to a country in need you are viewed in this country as a humanitarian, but do that same thing for people in this country, you are viewed a socialist (and I'm talking about the gov't here, not on a individual basis).
That is because it is not government's job. Ben Franklin said if you want to end poverty, make it uncomfortable. We hand them food stamps and welfare checks, and then I get to listen to their rap music playing very loudly later at night when I have to get up at 4 AM and go to work.

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JBS, I'm not saying necessarily screw everyone but ourselves, if we have the extra resources to help out, then do it. I'm just saying take care of your own first, then look out for everybody else.
If we do not take care of issues outside our borders, those issues will come here. 9/11 is a perfect example. If we had just killed OBL in 1998 when Clinton had him in range, maybe 9/11 doesn't happen. The last thing we want is more people flooding into this country... maybe we should build a fence! I'm not blaming Clinton for the ills of this country, he was probably the second best president of my lifetime (Reagan #1).

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The attack on GWB was funny, he thought so too. He also was pretty quick to react. But an attack is just that, an attack and should be taken seriously. That could have easily been a gun, bomb, etc. I'm not even a fan of GWB, but should be view as an attack towards Americans.
No it wasn't. No sitting U.S. president, whether it Clinton, Bush or even the upcoming Obama should ever be treated that way. I have said it 100 times since the election, I hope I am voting for Barack Obama in 2012 because that means he did a great job as president, its not about him.

That being said, I hope he, nor George W., bows to this worthless UAW. Break that damn union's back and never let them recover. They are the enemy, pure and simple.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:19 PM   #68 (permalink)
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It's like buying a house and after 1 year of moving in you start to notice your wood flooring is starting to warp. Then you find out that it's because of flooding underneath your house from pipes that have been corroded for years and that the leak has been there for a very long time. It's not your fault, it was bound to happen. You were just in the right place at the wrong time.
Sounds like someone hired the wrong home inspector prior to buying. JK Wheels. I always have respect for your opinion on things posted on the board, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #69 (permalink)
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That being said, I hope he, nor George W., bows to this worthless UAW. Break that damn union's back and never let them recover. They are the enemy, pure and simple.[/B]
Give me a break. OK lets get rid of the UAW, hires illegals for an unfair wage with no benefits to speak of and let the rich get richer. If it were not for unions in this country, there would be no middle class and most jobs would not offer health benefits, pensions etc. You'd have the super wealthy and the poor who just get by each month.

You want to talk about "worthless" people making too much money, how about the friggin ambulance chasing lawyers and their frivilous law suits ? Yeah lets get our 20% by finding loopholes in laws so some idiot can prosper for their own stupidity. Its bad enough that some of these actually get paid off (like the idiot who spilled coffee on themselves while driving) but what about the 1000s that get thrown out that still waste tax payers money to begin with ?
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:59 PM   #70 (permalink)
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That is because it is not government's job. Ben Franklin said if you want to end poverty, make it uncomfortable. We hand them food stamps and welfare checks, and then I get to listen to their rap music playing very loudly later at night when I have to get up at 4 AM and go to work.



If we do not take care of issues outside our borders, those issues will come here. 9/11 is a perfect example. If we had just killed OBL in 1998 when Clinton had him in range, maybe 9/11 doesn't happen. The last thing we want is more people flooding into this country... maybe we should build a fence! I'm not blaming Clinton for the ills of this country, he was probably the second best president of my lifetime (Reagan #1).



No it wasn't. No sitting U.S. president, whether it Clinton, Bush or even the upcoming Obama should ever be treated that way. I have said it 100 times since the election, I hope I am voting for Barack Obama in 2012 because that means he did a great job as president, its not about him.

That being said, I hope he, nor George W., bows to this worthless UAW. Break that damn union's back and never let them recover. They are the enemy, pure and simple.

1st - I would be careful how you word your first rebuttal. Not saying you are being a certain way, but this could be interpretted as a racist comment. I know the system is abused, but there are plenty of people using welfare that would rather be off of it and making a living on their own.

2nd - I agree with the OBL comment, but the first Bush should have taken care of the job in Iraq the first time, too. Then maybe this second war would have never happened. Mistakes have been made all over the place. And we have tried to take care of issues outside of our borders, and it still comes here.

3rd - I never said that GWB should have been treated this way, no one should, but when I saw the smile on his face after the first shoe was thrown, I laughed. I'm sorry that I found humor in that KMD. I'm sure that the person responsible is in a lot of trouble, too.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:05 PM   #71 (permalink)
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2nd - I agree with the OBL comment, but the first Bush should have taken care of the job in Iraq the first time, too.
The coallition from the first Gulf War received UN approval to liberate Kuwait - NOT go into Iraq and go after Saddam.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:15 PM   #72 (permalink)
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That is what I have my beef with. What the hell happened to my country, right or wrong, my country.

Everyones eyes outside of our country, yes that's how they see us. The way they see us, they see us as doing wrong. It has nothing to do with "my country". They have the right to feel this way about us just the same way you feel about evil muslims.

A 9/11 type attack was not preventable whether it be on that day or latert, it was not the first attack and will not be the last. At any one time anybody could attack on this soil or any soil.

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Old 12-15-2008, 03:24 PM   #73 (permalink)
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The coallition from the first Gulf War received UN approval to liberate Kuwait - NOT go into Iraq and go after Saddam.
Come on Capt. if the USA went Saddam hunting the first time as an extra what would the UN do but bitch and moan under their collective breath. Hell I bet most UN leaders would dance a jig in the men's room if it were announced we erased him back then. Besides our government has some of the best bull$hitters in the world. Easy coverup over the phone..........Sorry UN, we were cleaning our missle launcher and it just went off by accident......... Did we hit something ?....... Saddam's palace ? ..... Really ?.... Was he home ?......Tell him it was an accident and to notify our insurance company for any damage.....He is dead ?....You sure ?.....Then why the hell are you bugging me at this hour of the night ? Call me back in the morning if you want to thank me. Jeez click

Moral of the story.....Just because you go to Amsterdam to get your smoke on doesn't mean you can't pick out something in the window as well.
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:29 PM   #74 (permalink)
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1st - I would be careful how you word your first rebuttal. Not saying you are being a certain way, but this could be interpretted as a racist comment.
I listen to rap music (not a lot of it and nothing after 1989) and I don't see his comment as racist whatsoever. What does musical preference have to do with race?
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:38 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Come on Capt. if the USA went Saddam hunting the first time as an extra what would the UN do but bitch and moan under their collective breath. Hell I bet most UN leaders would dance a jig in the men's room if it were announced we erased him back then. Besides our government has some of the best #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ters in the world. Easy coverup over the phone..........Sorry UN, we were cleaning our missle launcher and it just went off by accident......... Did we hit something ?....... Saddam's palace ? ..... Really ?.... Was he home ?......Tell him it was an accident and to notify our insurance company for any damage.....He is dead ?....You sure ?.....Then why the hell are you bugging me at this hour of the night ? Call me back in the morning if you want to thank me. Jeez click

Moral of the story.....Just because you go to Amsterdam to get your smoke on doesn't mean you can't pick out something in the window as well.
Thats the thing, the reason for the first Gulf war was different from this war. Remember, that war was fought (for the most part) inside Kuwait... they would have had to go back to the UN to invade Iraq.

Don't get me wrong - i think they should have went in after him, esp with 700K soldiers just waiting at the border.. BUT the Sr. Bush wasn't as cavallier as GWB.

I was making the point that flobert was wrong in saying that the first Bush should have taken care of Sadam in Iraq the first time because circumstances were different. The war was in Kuwait - not in Iraq.
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