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Old 04-18-2009, 12:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default If the police ask to search yiour car without a warrant, just say yes

otherwise they'll respect your rights, right?
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The cops went way too far, but he should have been more cooperative than he was. That's still no excuse for how far the cops went, and I'd be willing to bet this guy hasn't learned anything from this and will continue to not cooperate with the authorities. There would have been nothing wrong with him letting them search his car. It's for everyone's safety for crying out loud.

That's how I see it anyway.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you have nothing to hide then let them search your car. Granted the border patrol/EPS may have gone a bit too far but had he let them search the vehicle and they found nothing he would have been on his way.
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The cops went way too far, but he should have been more cooperative than he was. That's still no excuse for how far the cops went, and I'd be willing to bet this guy hasn't learned anything from this and will continue to not cooperate with the authorities. There would have been nothing wrong with him letting them search his car. It's for everyone's safety for crying out loud.

That's how I see it anyway.
You are spot on here Matt. This guy has been in the news before for these kind of things and no doubt will continue.

Tempe pastor alleges border agents beat him
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Old 04-18-2009, 01:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Some of these videos are very intertaining

Fourth amendment rights dont apply to border patrol. Same as coast gaurd/navy. They can stop and inspect every vehicle/vessel.

A law which was voted in by the people years and years ago for "our own protection" as the government sold it on ballots.
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Old 04-18-2009, 03:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The cops went way too far, but he should have been more cooperative than he was. That's still no excuse for how far the cops went, and I'd be willing to bet this guy hasn't learned anything from this and will continue to not cooperate with the authorities. There would have been nothing wrong with him letting them search his car. It's for everyone's safety for crying out loud.

That's how I see it anyway.
and another member's words...

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If you have nothing to hide then let them search your car. Granted the border patrol/EPS may have gone a bit too far but had he let them search the vehicle and they found nothing he would have been on his way.



Wow...Heil Hitler! O/


Let me bold some of the things you said....which are downright hitlarian.


1. You say..."he should have been more cooperative"....WHY SHOULD HE? We are not members in the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or the Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik. We do not have to bend over and be forced to abandon our constitutional rights for CERTAIN police who decide to use nazi tactics against it's own citizens as part of a policy of terror and fear.

2. You then say, "there would have been nothing wrong to let them search the car" - Are you out of your MIND??? LET THEM SEARCH THE CAR??? Your solution to the problem, is to be cooperative with it?!?! THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO SEARCH THE CAR - PERIOD. Some of you seem to think it's a good idea for police to be able to use search and seizure in nearly any situation - and extremely violence when someone doesn't want to cooperate. Here's the truth of it - POLICE HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORCE SOMEONE TO COMPLY WITH SEARCH AND SEIZURE WITHOUT A WARRANT. Probable cause is a JOKE - and can be construed as anything today - which is what gives police infinite power. "well I smelled marijuana, so I had to search his car under probable cause." BS! This sickens me.

3. Lastly...the absolute WORST thing you BOTH could have said...this was TEXTBOOK right out of ANY fascist regime. " It's for everyone's safety for crying out loud." I can NOT believe a person actually used that excuse...it has become so obviously stupid that people use that excuse JOKINGLY to MOCK the system. FOR OUR OWN SAFETY? What SAFETY? Lets pretend the guy was trafficking drugs and guns to Mexico....WHO'S SAFETY IS BEING VIOLATED LETTING HIM PASS? Exactly. The only time SAFETY is concerned is when the person in the car tries to harm another individual or suspend another individuals rights. Your solution, is to let the Government Machine - do as it wants, when it wants, trampling the rights of everyone as part of their terror agenda....because..."ITS FOR OUR OWN SAFETY" ??? HAVE YOU GONE STARK RAVING MAD?!??!

Let me refer you to Ben Franklin's famous quote.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."\

This man tried to protect his rights against the Nazi Regime.

All of you blind idiots out there who think that it's ok to give in to the cops, and its fine to allow our rights to be destroyed - because its all for our own safety....obviously have never learned one single thing about history.

Every single brutal totalitarian regime in history has used these same excuses - here are some MODERN examples:

1. Nazi Germany - If you aren't a Jew or communist, you have nothing to be worried about!
2. Soviet Union - If you are a true communist, you have nothing to be worried about!
3. Imperial Japan - If you are a good Japanese Warrior, you have nothing to be worried about!
4. Mao's China - If you are a good citizen of China, you have nothing to be worried about!

the list goes on....but that's just some basic examples....

"its for our own safety..." SO for our own safety...we are to comply with police to violate our rights and freedoms....for our OWN safety?

"If you have nothing to hide then let them search your car." MAYBE BECAUSE IT'S MY RIGHT TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY BUSINESS AS LONG AS I AM NOT INFRINGING ON ANYONE ELSE'S FREEDOM? DO YOU HAVE NO CONCEPT OF PRIVACY AND LIBERTY?



Sorry - but I'd rather take my chances with the threat of...

omg...


TERRIBLE DRUGS!!

and omg omg...


THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS YOU CALL FIREARMS!!

and...lord help us...


TERRORISTS@!!!111


AHHHHHHHHH!!! PROTECT US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! PROTECT US FROM THOSE TERRIBLE THINGS!


What a joke. I have lost all faith in this country because of things like this (if the event even really happened with the guy in the video) - and because of truly ill-educated people who don't take the time to truly research, pay attention, and comprehend things for what they are.

edit:

that was a huge rant and I'm sorry for this...but I can not sit idly by and see people argue over technicalities and why we should be giving away our freedom to be "protected" by the government. I would rather protect myself thanks very much - as we all should. We are not children who require the our daddy to protect us (the government) - we should be self sufficient, and able to defend ourselves and make our own decisions without being coerced.

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Old 04-18-2009, 03:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Going to edit this post because of an error. sorry.
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Old 04-18-2009, 03:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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AHHHHHHHHH!!! PROTECT US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! PROTECT US FROM THOSE TERRIBLE THINGS!


What a joke. I have lost all faith in this country because of things like this (if the event even really happened with the guy in the video) - and because of truly ill-educated people who don't take the time to truly research, pay attention, and comprehend things for what they are.

edit:

that was a huge rant and I'm sorry for this...but I can not sit idly by and see people argue over technicalities and why we should be giving away our freedom to be "protected" by the government. I would rather protect myself thanks very much - as we all should. We are not children who require the our daddy to protect us (the government) - we should be self sufficient, and able to defend ourselves and make our own decisions without being coerced.
How in the heck are you going to protect yourself from a car bomb like the one that hit Oklahoma city several years ago if it ends up being parked outside your home or work place OR some store you happen to be walking into to do a little shopping just as it goes off?

I understand what you are saying in your post, but sometimes we need a little protecting. Without law and order, at least some type of government control, I don't care who you are, you are NOT going to be able to protect yourself from everything.

Please don't try and post something to try and sway my belief that you can protect yourself from every danger that is out there today. Please oh please don't try and insult my intelligence. :-)
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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edit:

that was a huge rant and I'm sorry for this...but I can not sit idly by and see people argue over technicalities and why we should be giving away our freedom to be "protected" by the government. I would rather protect myself thanks very much - as we all should. We are not children who require the our daddy to protect us (the government) - we should be self sufficient, and able to defend ourselves and make our own decisions without being coerced.
You are forming your opinion on one side of the story. He proved in his little rant that he is capable of lying, stating it took an hour to clean the blood off his face. He also claimed that he never resisted arrest, yet he would not get out of the vehicle. He also provoked the incident claiming his "fourth amendment" rights, that guaranteed a search was going to happen. From the 15 seconds of his intro video I could bear to watch on his main page, I am sure there is a lot more to the story not being told.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The worst is when they rip your car up over their suspicions.

Ive only been pulled out of my car once coming back from Windsor, Canada
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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personally i think he got off easy only 11 stitches (that's a scratch) a good beating puts him in the hospital with kidney failure
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How in the heck are you going to protect yourself from a car bomb like the one that hit Oklahoma city several years ago if it ends up being parked outside your home or work place OR some store you happen to be walking into to do a little shopping just as it goes off?

I understand what you are saying in your post, but sometimes we need a little protecting. Without law and order, at least some type of government control, I don't care who you are, you are NOT going to be able to protect yourself from everything.

Please don't try and post something to try and sway my belief that you can protect yourself from every danger that is out there today. Please oh please don't try and insult my intelligence. :-)

Law enforcement didn't protect the Oklahoma city bombing either...so what is YOUR point?

The rule is...anyone can commit a crime, no matter how big it is - if they accept the idea that they will in fact get captured or killed. The only protection we have against situations like that is to be cognizant and diligent and protect ourselves.

Also - as stated before....YOU CAN NOT PROTECT YOURSELF FROM EVERYTHING.

However - at the rate that SPECIFIC events that WE as people can not protect (such as 9/11, Oklahoma city bombing, etc.) - there are hundreds of thousands of OTHER events that we can!

It is not a matter of being 100% protected at any time...NOTHING can see to that except for death itself (even then we don't even know lol)

But I stand by my statements...the government can NOT protect us from anything more than we can protect OURSELVES from...and in most cases...we can protect ourselves better than the government, with higher efficiency, and WITHOUT GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS!
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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personally i think he got off easy only 11 stitches (that's a scratch) a good beating puts him in the hospital with kidney failure
Ah, a fan of police brutality and government total control?

Seig Heil eh?

I think you were born in the wrong country at the wrong era...you would have been a perfect candidate for the German ORPO circa 1941.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Law enforcement didn't protect the Oklahoma city bombing either...so what is YOUR point?

The rule is...anyone can commit a crime, no matter how big it is - if they accept the idea that they will in fact get captured or killed. The only protection we have against situations like that is to be cognizant and diligent and protect ourselves.

Also - as stated before....YOU CAN NOT PROTECT YOURSELF FROM EVERYTHING.

However - at the rate that SPECIFIC events that WE as people can not protect (such as 9/11, Oklahoma city bombing, etc.) - there are hundreds of thousands of OTHER events that we can!

It is not a matter of being 100% protected at any time...NOTHING can see to that except for death itself (even then we don't even know lol)

But I stand by my statements...the government can NOT protect us from anything more than we can protect OURSELVES from...and in most cases...we can protect ourselves better than the government, with higher efficiency, and WITHOUT GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS!
I agree with this pretty much, anything can happen at anytime. Anyone can cause the next attack.
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ah, a fan of police brutality and government total control?

Seig Heil eh?

I think you were born in the wrong country at the wrong era...you would have been a perfect candidate for the German ORPO circa 1941.
i think you need to relax biotoole pull your panties up and go serve your country
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Old 04-18-2009, 05:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Law enforcement didn't protect the Oklahoma city bombing either...so what is YOUR point?

The rule is...anyone can commit a crime, no matter how big it is - if they accept the idea that they will in fact get captured or killed. The only protection we have against situations like that is to be cognizant and diligent and protect ourselves.

Also - as stated before....YOU CAN NOT PROTECT YOURSELF FROM EVERYTHING.

However - at the rate that SPECIFIC events that WE as people can not protect (such as 9/11, Oklahoma city bombing, etc.) - there are hundreds of thousands of OTHER events that we can!

It is not a matter of being 100% protected at any time...NOTHING can see to that except for death itself (even then we don't even know lol)

But I stand by my statements...the government can NOT protect us from anything more than we can protect OURSELVES from...and in most cases...we can protect ourselves better than the government, with higher efficiency, and WITHOUT GIVING UP OUR RIGHTS!
You're not very smart if you don't get my point, but I'll try again with another example that more closely relates to this story...

Remember the guy that was picking people off with a rifle from the trunk of his car? No one could figure out where that was coming from. Well, what if a dog started barking during a random parking lot search that this car was parked in, but they didn't have a warrant to look inside, so they just let it go? The officers could have broken into the trunk of that car and found the shooter and saved several lives, but ordinary people, (like you and me), would not have been able to do the same. Heck, we wouldn't have even been warned someone was in the trunk.

The fact is that the government has its uses and a responsibility to protect us if it can. You're right, the government didn't stop the OK City bombing, but how many bombings have they stopped? You seem to be pretty all knowing, so how many? None? Thousands???

I would rather live in a country where I'm allowed to own a gun AND the government wants to protect me by searching my car because they have "probable cause". I have nothing to hide, so go right ahead. That doesn't mean I'm a nazi or want to hail Hitler. I'm an American through and through, and I want my children to be safe. I'll accept the fact that I cannot protect them at all times as easily as having help from the government. I'm no fool.
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think the guy stood up to these Orwellian tactics to show the current state of law enforcement and possible abuses of power that are going on in the land of the free. He did it at his own expense.

Anytime I'm pulled over I'm like, "yes sir" or "no sir" but more often I'm like "Officer, honestly I have ABSOLUTELY NO idea why I'm naked"
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Anytime I'm pulled over I'm like, "yes sir" or "no sir" but more often I'm like "Officer, honestly I have ABSOLUTELY NO idea why I'm naked"
Made me laugh. LOL
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You're not very smart if you don't get my point, but I'll try again with another example that more closely relates to this story...

Remember the guy that was picking people off with a rifle from the trunk of his car? No one could figure out where that was coming from. Well, what if a dog started barking during a random parking lot search that this car was parked in, but they didn't have a warrant to look inside, so they just let it go? The officers could have broken into the trunk of that car and found the shooter and saved several lives, but ordinary people, (like you and me), would not have been able to do the same. Heck, we wouldn't have even been warned someone was in the trunk.

The fact is that the government has its uses and a responsibility to protect us if it can. You're right, the government didn't stop the OK City bombing, but how many bombings have they stopped? You seem to be pretty all knowing, so how many? None? Thousands???

I would rather live in a country where I'm allowed to own a gun AND the government wants to protect me by searching my car because they have "probable cause". I have nothing to hide, so go right ahead. That doesn't mean I'm a nazi or want to hail Hitler. I'm an American through and through, and I want my children to be safe. I'll accept the fact that I cannot protect them at all times as easily as having help from the government. I'm no fool.

Doesn't matter at all...about snipers or OTHER incidents where people are unable to protect themselves...you miss the point again.


NONE OF THIS IS WORTH GIVING AWAY LIBERTY FOR! NONE OF IT!


How many people died as the result of these incidents? Hardly .001% of all the crimes perpetrated in the country in totality. So for you to say that you have nothing to hide, ENTRUSTS yourself to the government...the most corrupt and vile entity in this country. Your beliefs and thoughts are well-placed...but unfortunately your well-being is NOT the concern of your government.
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i think you need to relax biotoole pull your panties up and go serve your country
Typical neo-con moron with his blindly-patriotic head up his own ass.

You probably have an IQ of butter

let me guess, you have an american flag wrapped around a pitbull with a spiked collar tattooed on your arm with "FREEDOM IS NOT FREE" in traditional script.

To serve one's country - first and foremost - is to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, PROTECT THE INNOCENT, AND DEFEND AGAINST TYRANNY.

You sir....seem to be wanting to piss on the constitution, attack the innocent, and promote tyranny.

You are actually the enemy of America, and a member of the fascist principles that have crumbled great nations around the world in years past.

People like you are why our founding fathers decided to make a constitution - and a free state system with a limited federal government.

You wearing the marine emblem as your avatar is a disgrace. You're nothing more than a coward who gets off on watching police beat civilians. Why don't you see what it feels like to have your family taken away from you by the gestapo while you're beaten and murdered by the SS in the middle of the night....oh wait! you'd be one of those SS guys...nvm you'd love it.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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so biodole, do you think the country would be safer if the police, military and other agencies searched weren't allowed to search anyone that didn't want to be searched?
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I think the guy stood up to these Orwellian tactics to show the current state of law enforcement and possible abuses of power that are going on in the land of the free. He did it at his own expense.

Anytime I'm pulled over I'm like, "yes sir" or "no sir" but more often I'm like "Officer, honestly I have ABSOLUTELY NO idea why I'm naked"
What is wrong with you?I thought I was the only one who did thisLMAO!!!!
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Typical neo-con moron with his blindly-patriotic head up his own ass.

You probably have an IQ of butter

let me guess, you have an american flag wrapped around a pitbull with a spiked collar tattooed on your arm with "FREEDOM IS NOT FREE" in traditional script.

To serve one's country - first and foremost - is to UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, PROTECT THE INNOCENT, AND DEFEND AGAINST TYRANNY.

You sir....seem to be wanting to piss on the constitution, attack the innocent, and promote tyranny.

You are actually the enemy of America, and a member of the fascist principles that have crumbled great nations around the world in years past.

People like you are why our founding fathers decided to make a constitution - and a free state system with a limited federal government.

You wearing the marine emblem as your avatar is a disgrace. You're nothing more than a coward who gets off on watching police beat civilians. Why don't you see what it feels like to have your family taken away from you by the gestapo while you're beaten and murdered by the SS in the middle of the night....oh wait! you'd be one of those SS guys...nvm you'd love it.
hahahahaha...anywhere anytime terd!!!

were you born in a hippie commune by two doped out parents who believe they have the right to do and say whatever they want but contribute nothing to society but a piece of SH*T like you. now mind you i'm not saying this is the case i'm just asking nitwit.

ps...war is hell dumb-azz!!! ur just a silly little boy hiding behind a computer where you spew your ignorance because in real life you are a pathetic human being. for your information there are countries for you to live in (france & canada just to name 2) where your moronic views fit in just fine so get your ticket and leave the US. also for your information i strongly believe in torturing al qaeda for information that keeps our country safe. i think the death penalty is the greatest thing in the world and catching a beat down from a cop 9x out of 10 u deserved it.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:17 PM   #24 (permalink)
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so biodole, do you think the country would be safer if the police, military and other agencies searched weren't allowed to search anyone that didn't want to be searched?
Depends - if that person has just committed a crime - then yes the police have a right to search them.

If that person has NOT committed a crime - but the police decide they want to search them for "probable cause" or whatever reason - they should NOT be able to WITHOUT a warrant!!!
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:39 PM   #25 (permalink)
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hahahahaha...anywhere anytime terd!!!

were you born in a hippie commune by two doped out parents who believe they have the right to do and say whatever they want but contribute nothing to society but a piece of SH*T like you. now mind you i'm not saying this is the case i'm just asking nitwit.

ps...war is hell dumb-azz!!! ur just a silly little boy hiding behind a computer where you spew your ignorance because in real life you are a pathetic human being. for your information there are countries for you to live in (france & canada just to name 2) where your moronic views fit in just fine so get your ticket and leave the US. also for your information i strongly believe in torturing al qaeda for information that keeps our country safe. i think the death penalty is the greatest thing in the world and catching a beat down from a cop 9x out of 10 u deserved it.

You sound exactly the way I did when I was a teenager...and believe me, in time you will probably change as well.

The two of us should stop bashing each other and stick to the points at hand...because I have a chance to do good by you right now.

First of all, I grew up in a very Conservative household of family members that all served in the armed forces as far back as the the Revolutionary War against Britain. Our family was very proud of our American heritage, and typically sided with modern Republican views (post lincoln era).

My whole life, I thought war, police, government power, and blind-patriotism were great. I got into fights in high school with kids who wouldn't stand for the pledge. I was suspended from high school after my 3rd offense on this subject. I was so blindly-patriotic that I even tried to enlist in the marine corps at 16, lying about my age. They obviously caught me.

I ended up in both law enforcement and the legal system in my career...but in time things soured me from the process...especially when I started seeing how things really were.

The more I saw things for what they were - the more I started taking the time to start researching and learning on my own.


Now here is what the truth is ronlabo,

my views are constitutional-libertarian. I believe in freedom, the constitution of the United States of America, non-interventionist ideals, independent states, liberty, and small government. All of those things, are what our founders believed in ronlabo.

If you do a bit of research, you'll find out why our country was founded, why our founders decided to rebel against the tyrannical British rule, and why it was so important to make a liberty-loving, free and prosperous country.

So let me address a few things.

1. War is hell - no doubt about it, I agree with you. We should AVOID it at all costs. It is not the job of the United States to be the policeman of the world. We are meant to protect ourselves above all else - and we should stay out of other people's business. If they attack us first, that's different.

2. Torturing al queda might sound like a good idea on paper - believe me I agreed with it for years - however there is a problem. The moment you allow your government to enact torture, suspend habeas corpus, and build prisons overseas to hold people they classify as terrorists - you now open a major gateway into total government control. Remember, torture laws can be used against ANYONE! Just because we torture al queda...doesn't mean that we can't torture one of our own people (which we can say is a terrorist, even if they aren't). Our founders spoke of these things, and explained why it is a slippery slope to allow such behavior. If a person in this country is found guilty of a crime - they are punished. However, to torture any person for information can certainly work - but at what cost? What happens when our government starts torturing civilians to get information? This may seem like it won't happen, but ronlabo I assume you that it can. It happened in Germany, Russia, China, Japan, Iran, Iraq, India, Mexico, the list goes on and on.

3. Death penalty is to be debated, we'll leave this alone for now.

4. Beat down from a cop - Ok now here's the idea. As nice as it sounds to put someone in their place when they are being a public nuisance (like the kid from UF "don't taze me bro") the point is - police are in place to protect civilians from criminals - not hurt civilians trying to find criminals and justify crimes. A cop doesn't have a legal right to beat ANYONE down...unless the cop is physically attacked first. Let's be honest here...if a cop beat you for not letting him search your vehicle, your rights were violated. We have come to accept the idea that cops are like our parents and we do what they tell us - but that was not the idea of our founders in a truly free society. Police are just citizens with a job of protection. Arresting people for possessing drugs, or beating people for not complying with search and seizure is a total invasion of human rights. The point of the government was to be small and provide inter-state and inter-national diplomacy, as well as protection against fraud/misrepresentation, and protection against foreign invaders, as well as protection against crimes of Malum in se (natural law).

You probably won't even read this, but I'll give you the credit of being a civilized person enough to take the time and have a good discussion without the ranting we were BOTH doing before.

It is in our best interest as americans to protect ourselves from the threat of Tyranny
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