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Old 08-03-2009, 07:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Wow seems like a bit too much praise for the Democrats. After all we are the greatest nation in the world. In all seriousness though, both parties have been fairly ineffective the last 10+ years. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Too much me me me me, and not enough we we we we (we=us Americans). The Dems and Repubs on the extreme ends are the problems, they only want it their way and aren't willing to be bipartisan.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Paranoid Crooks do not go down easy. Not a one of the Senators or Congressmen want to get a real job. This is going to be interesting to watch as I sense people are really get sick of the stench coming from Washington.

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People showed up at a town hall meeting last week to confront and protest a US Congresswoman. Instead of tackling the issue, she calls the cops. This is just the start as these congress people get scared. As the people get more and more P.O'd and confrontational, the more of a police state we will become. Pretty soon, we'll be just like Russia. Or Oceania. (1984)
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Yep, they ignored us with the Stimulus passage. People are going to make 110% sure they're heard this time.

Here's a couple examples from the past couple of days

YouTube - Lloyd Doggett's meeting on Obamacare in south Austin, TX, 1 Aug 2009

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Thanks for sharing a couple of great videos depicting Democracy in Action. Obama is really going to regret ever taking a vacation when his Healtcare Plan arrives as a corpse.

I would have some respect for Obama if he put forward a plan to cover the 10-15 million of the truly uninsured who want healthcare. Instead Obama cannot wait to get his greedy little fingers on 1/6 more of the US economy. If you believe Obama putting patients records on computers is going to save Hundreds of Billions of Dollars to help fund his program.

The Government cannot efficiently manage Cash for Clunkers and people are willing to put your health in their hands?


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Yep, they ignored us with the Stimulus passage. People are going to make 110% sure they're heard this time.

Here's a couple examples from the past couple of days

YouTube - Lloyd Doggett's meeting on Obamacare in south Austin, TX, 1 Aug 2009

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:00 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Too much me me me me, and not enough we we we we (we=us Americans). The Dems and Repubs on the extreme ends are the problems, they only want it their way and aren't willing to be bipartisan.
Absolutely. Completely frustrating as well. Even in this health care debate, personally, I have seen good and bad ideas from both sides. The sad part is we probably could get solid health care reform if they put party affiliations & special interests aside, but instead will end with nothing or a bill that is flawed. Either of which is not in the best interests of the country.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:02 PM   #31 (permalink)
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If you believe Obama putting patients records on computers is going to save Hundreds of Billions of Dollars to help fund his program.
It may not save hundreds of Billions but it actually is a good idea and does lead to substantial savings. This is one change everyone should agree on, it's a no brainer - which of course means it probably will not happen any time soon.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:07 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It may not save hundreds of Billions but it actually is a good idea and does lead to substantial savings. This is one change everyone should agree on, it's a no brainer - which of course means it probably will not happen any time soon.
Much easier than paper files and it saves money.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:11 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Wow seems like a bit too much praise for the Democrats. After all we are the greatest nation in the world. In all seriousness though, both parties have been fairly ineffective the last 10+ years. There is plenty of blame to go around.
This is the correct answer.

I really love when one side bashes the other, because it's moronic.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:21 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Don't really care what was said in the thread but Obama said that he would raise taxes on people bringing home more that $250,000.

I guess I'll read the rest later and have an epiphany... then again maybe not.

YAWN
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
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YouTube - TIM BISHOP PROTEST, SETAUKET, NY (part one)
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:10 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Not for nothing folks, but whatever side of the aisle you are on you have to be out of your mind to bring your child (under 10) to one of these rallies. Eventually one of these is going to turn ugly and you are going to have get out of there with your kid. Its hard enough when you are saving your own skin.
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:54 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Sorry, only read page 1,4 so I may be a bit out of touch for this conversation. As healthcare goes, we are all at fault, democrat, republican, rich, poor, young and old.
Supply and demand throws the healthcare industry into a multi,multi billion dollar industry in the US. As Americans I think its important to shop for the health care treatments we get. Many Americans don't "shop" for health care, and instead are very brand loyal without even knowing it. A lot of us don't realize a procedure may be cheaper at one location then the other, and although generic drugs may be 90 percent less, or even be on the shelf we go for the brand name high end drugs. We have to ask our doctors, is there any alternatives for this drug etc. Doctors,physicians, get paid to sell drugs, sorry to say.

Another huge problem with our hospitals however in many areas is the amount of illegal immigrants without health care coming in, not discounting people without healthcare but this has become a increasingly huge problem within the United States.
"In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants." It has become a increasing problem over the past few years. It has crowded many inner city hospitals delaying emergency health care to those who need it. The Obama plan really doesn't cover that issue too well (my opinion)

However with cheaper health care, the demand rises more. Will you get a normal checkup yearly if the price was 1000 dollars, no. However if the checkup was 10 dollars, yes. That is why we see places with government regulated health care IE: Canada, England having 3-4 month waits just to get into a clinic, dentist etc. We have Canadians coming into the US for healthcare just because they can't wait for care.

Will Obamas plan work, who knows. It is way to early to tell, however keep in mind with affordable healthcare more and more people are going to be clouding our hospitals, clinics until the price rises due to the increased demand and insurance companies paying off the doctors etc. Its supply and demand. Its like complaining about gas costs, we can reform it but if there's going to be demand for gas at 3 dollars a gallon,IT WILL SELL AT 3 DOLLARS. There's going to be demand for a heart transplant at 100,000 dollars or a medication at 80 dollars where the generic is 20 dollars. Its up to us to make the decisions on our healthcare, and if we gave more of a sh*t about our health like we do shopping at k-mart for specials or twitter tuesday deals, we may have never been here to begin!

Personally, I don't think there's a whole lot we can do. The Obama plan has a few good ideas. The more to group together into these larger groups of people to manage costs is a good first step (increased employee based programs). Reforming the market to increase competition allows the supply to increase (thus price due to demand goes down due to more supply)

However parts I don't like,
Offering federal reinsurance to employers to help ensure that unexpected or catastrophic illnesses do not make health insurance unaffordable or out of reach for businesses and their employees. AND where will this money come from? Our pockets, federal reinsurance = taxes.
Affordable Health care for ALL Americans, 45 million are without health care, if the Gov. puts on affordable health care there has to be restrictions onto what these people can do, I mean if life or death understandable but there are some very expensive procedures that if this cheap Gov plan covers our pockets will be screwed from it and not only that, people may switch from their current provider to this again just ending up screwing us and going into what Canada has (A MESS).

Note: I am democrat, however in today's world for every positive their is a equal negative in every plan, in important topics like war, health care, etc. There is no answer, republican or democrat. Can we improve, sure. Will we, I don't know.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:21 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Heard the scary figure today that U.S. Tax Revenue is down 18% this year. That is a staggering number which is reflective of the times and is likely to drop more in the second half of 2009.

Do you think Washington had this Tax Revenue decrease built into their already insane $1.6 Trillion budget defecit projection? I would doubt it.

Does Washington understand that as revenue goes down that there is less to spend? Hello Barack, Hello Nancy Pelosi, Hello Republicans.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:23 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Cornerstone... you brought up a good point.

Hospitals make their big money on negotiated contracts with insurance companies. Each procedure gets a certain amount of dough regardless of the patients stay (1 day or 3 months).

This is why hospitals love to see patients the ARE NOT on managed care (Medicare, Medicaid) or not insured at all (if they can pay that is...wink)

I know a certain Saintly hospital chain in KY will charge 3 times the cost for a non-insured patient to have bariatric surgery than an insured patient.

The same kind of things happen with managed versus private insurance. Hospitals jack up the cost and we pay for it in higher premiums and medical costs.

I know as a health care worker I've seen signifigant jumps in my pay but when this chain of hospitals is building a half billion in new facilities over the next 3 years... well let's just say they're raking in some money. BUT THEY'RE NOT FOR PROFIT and have tax exemptions.

Sorry guys I'm so sick of this damn field, I went back to school to get out of it, because I thought I was actually going to help people but most of the people (managers, CEOs ..ect) in this industry are nothing but greed hungry, bottom line driven, pigs who are mre concerned about employees overtime ratios than their mortality rate.

BTW Jetson that percentage drop looks scary.. how are these guys going to pay for the hookers now???
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:39 AM   #40 (permalink)
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in this industry are nothing but greed hungry, bottom line driven, pigs who are more concerned about employees overtime ratios than their mortality rate.
That describes about 95% of all the corporations I've ever worked for. I think it's more a mentality of a segment of our society as a whole, and not a particular industry.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:54 AM   #41 (permalink)
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That describes about 95% of all the corporations I've ever worked for. I think it's more a mentality of a segment of our society as a whole, and not a particular industry.
That's the double edge sword of capitalism and a free economy. There is a trust and ethics factor that sometimes becomes tainted with greed. While our insurance premiums were climbing rapidly and more people were being excluded from insurance for various reasons (pre-existing conditions), the insurance companies were raking in huge profits and CEO's taking in massive bonuses. I am all for profits and do not believe in limiting anyone's bonus BUT when it results in a poorer system (which it has), not in care but in cost and availability, then things have to be looked at. Unfortunately the one's "looking" at it are in the back pockets of lobbyist and will protect their interests over ours.
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:48 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Until the last dollar is gone there will always be taxpayer junkets to Thailand and other Brothel Laiden Countries.... I am sure that they prefer the $5,000/hour entertainment provided by their lobbyists....

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BTW Jetson that percentage drop looks scary.. how are these guys going to pay for the hookers now???
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Old 08-05-2009, 08:53 AM   #43 (permalink)
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That's the double edge sword of capitalism and a free economy. There is a trust and ethics factor that sometimes becomes tainted with greed. While our insurance premiums were climbing rapidly and more people were being excluded from insurance for various reasons (pre-existing conditions), the insurance companies were raking in huge profits and CEO's taking in massive bonuses. I am all for profits and do not believe in limiting anyone's bonus BUT when it results in a poorer system (which it has), not in care but in cost and availability, then things have to be looked at. Unfortunately the one's "looking" at it are in the back pockets of lobbyist and will protect their interests over ours.
Couldn't agree with you more. I believe there are some people who get into politics who want to do good, have ethics and a sense of morality, but become corrupted by the system or leave. Nobody stays in that environment and has any integrity IMHO. I say vote out every incumbent, regardless of party. Throw them all out on their A**es and let them get real jobs. If people could do that I think we might see some sort of change, it's the only real power we have as a people yet we fail to utilize that one tool.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:04 PM   #44 (permalink)
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That's the double edge sword of capitalism and a free economy. There is a trust and ethics factor that sometimes becomes tainted with greed. While our insurance premiums were climbing rapidly and more people were being excluded from insurance for various reasons (pre-existing conditions), the insurance companies were raking in huge profits and CEO's taking in massive bonuses. I am all for profits and do not believe in limiting anyone's bonus BUT when it results in a poorer system (which it has), not in care but in cost and availability, then things have to be looked at. Unfortunately the one's "looking" at it are in the back pockets of lobbyist and will protect their interests over ours.
When the stock market was going up the insurance companies profits were also going up. The reason is the insurance companies invest the money they receive from premiums. I know that the major insurer based in my area does very well with their investments, even in the last year.

I find it funny that nobody is mentioning the root of the problems. The real problem is the ambulance chasers. The doctors cannot afford their own liability insurance any more, those costs have to be passed on to someone!
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:39 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Realistically the root of the problem is much more than ambulance chasers. They are just one segment of the out of line cost drivers. Throw in the cost of medical equipment, drugs and insurance company profits you have many people making an incredibly nice living off the health care industry. I am a free market guy to my core, but the cost of the US Healthcare System is an embarrassment.

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When the stock market was going up the insurance companies profits were also going up. The reason is the insurance companies invest the money they receive from premiums. I know that the major insurer based in my area does very well with their investments, even in the last year.

I find it funny that nobody is mentioning the root of the problems. The real problem is the ambulance chasers. The doctors cannot afford their own liability insurance any more, those costs have to be passed on to someone!
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:24 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Realistically the root of the problem is much more than ambulance chasers. They are just one segment of the out of line cost drivers. Throw in the cost of medical equipment, drugs and insurance company profits you have many people making an incredibly nice living off the health care industry. I am a free market guy to my core, but the cost of the US Healthcare System is an embarrassment.
I I think you can be a free-market guy and still recognize the need for tort reform. Being a lawyer and all I'm probably betraying the brotherhood like the reality is that more than half of the access cost of healthcare is because of abusive lawsuits. I'm not saying that every personal injury lawsuit is abusive but there is so much built in the system just to protect shellshocked doctors from these rogue attorneys that it's costing everyone more.

If Obama really wants national healthcare in a single-payer system I'd at least like to see some way that they addressed that but he never ended up because the attorneys are in his pocket. For the record I am not a member of the American Bar Association I don't think that my fee should go to support politicians that I don't believe in and I don't believe that simply being a lawyer means that Congress should make it easier and easier for me to make money at the expense of others.

there are still a few of us left who believe that being an attorney is actually a responsibility as well as a privilege and our soul existence is not to be a profit center for ourselves and our family. I don't want anyone here feeling sorry for me though I'm doing fairly well doing well by doing good if that makes sense.

I am following the typical pattern of the young attorney starting his own practice. 2009 was designed to make sure that I can survive 2010 and thrive in 2011. I am at the point were I would like to hire a paralegal but I'm terrified to do it right now because I suspect that card check and national healthcare will pass and I'll have a union harassing me about benefits and pay even though my firm is just a start up. I think it's an employee is willing to accept what I give them as a salary and benefits that should be fine but in this environment I can only use temporary contract associates because I can't hire them.

Hopefully in 2010 will get some sane people back in Congress and the business owners like me who are frozen right now because they're terrified of their own government will be able to start working again and hiring but I would doubt any real positive change in unemployment will happen before the 2010 elections, which means the progressives in Congress are extending the pain of this recession much longer than it ever had to go because they are scaring the daylights out of business owners and crushing them with unnecessary taxes to pay back their political friends.
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:35 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Realistically the root of the problem is much more than ambulance chasers. They are just one segment of the out of line cost drivers. Throw in the cost of medical equipment, drugs and insurance company profits you have many people making an incredibly nice living off the health care industry. I am a free market guy to my core, but the cost of the US Healthcare System is an embarrassment.
Your first two are related to the ambulance chasers!
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