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Old 09-10-2009, 11:34 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Fin... I've been in health care for 18 years. Yeah, I make decent money and more than some nursing jobs.

Just so you know.... Teachers make about the same or more depending on their rank status and way more if they choose leadership roles. Who regulates teaching pay, the government.

Your point is 100% correct though, docs might leave the field but for what? In England they have protested and their salaries might be smaller but guess what... they can raise their pay!

How... by preventing disease in their patience. The same holds true for other countries. I watched a really interesting report about nations wth socialized health care a while back here's a link

I agree with your concerns, but I truly feel a change needs to be made and our government needs to work together to make happen.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I personally try to vote for who i think is the best for our country.

I have voted for both sides and while my general belief is "less government running or ruining our lives", there are several things that I am "left" on.

We pay through the nose to live in this country and I have no problem paying my fair share, currently well over 50% of my earnings, or taking care of our less fortunate citizens. But when is enough enough and when will my government stop asking me to pay for all of the BS and all these "stimulus" programs that are not doing anything but bailing out the corporations who f'd up to begin with and the people who barely pay any taxes to begin with, including those that continue to live off these programs with no intention of ever bettering their lives.

I just think this is not what America was supposed to be about.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:46 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I personally try to vote for who i think is the best for our country.

I have voted for both sides and while my general belief is "less government running or ruining our lives", there are several things that I am "left" on.

We pay through the nose to live in this country and I have no problem paying my fair share, currently well over 50% of my earnings, or taking care of our less fortunate citizens. But when is enough enough and when will my government stop asking me to pay for all of the BS and all these "stimulus" programs that are not doing anything but bailing out the corporations who f'd up to begin with and the people who barely pay any taxes to begin with, including those that continue to live off these programs with no intention of ever bettering their lives.

I just think this is not what America was supposed to be about.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:50 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Stop over-reacting. This country is a long way off from that status. Prove to me that it is close.

Time will tell. Ask me again in 3 to 7 years.




Socialism would require everyone to get this health care. It is simply not the case, you have a choice.

Time will tell, we have no idea what is going to get approved. Everyone will get this health care except people who currently pay for it.
So I have a choice to keep the current insurance that I pay for?

Do I have a choice to not pay for everyone elses?
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:00 PM   #30 (permalink)
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There is no way that we can afford the Health Plan that Obama outlined with the promise that not one more deficit dollar will be spent. Where will the $ come from to insure the 30-50 Million more people? Nothing is being done to TRULY contain costs (because the lobbyists are in both parties pockets) so launching this program will be a financial disaster.

Let the dissections of Obama claims begin.

OK time to be more specific. Is anyone stupid enough to believe Obama's claim if we reduce the cost of Healthcare by 0.1% it will reduce the deficit by $4 Trillion. This is the stupidest statement made in the history of mankind. So if we reduce the Healthcare cost by 1.0% then we will save $40 Trillion and be able to buy back all of our debt from all around the world and still be able to give all Americans $100,000 each. Sounds feasible, right?



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So I have a choice to keep the current insurance that I pay for?

Do I have a choice to not pay for everyone elses?
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:04 PM   #31 (permalink)
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So I have a choice to keep the current insurance that I pay for?

Do I have a choice to not pay for everyone elses?
I guess that you don't have a choice to not pay for it. This is to say it even passes. To be honest with you, I don't think it will. I think it's too different than what people are used to, but I do think that if both side work together, a happy median can acheived.

I was raised in a liberal, Irish household. I understand the right wing side of things, I just don't agree. I don't hold anything against anyone elses beliefs. One of my best friends is super conservative and if often results in drunken debates that can't remember in the morning.

I certainly have my views, and you certainly have your views. If our government can reach a meeting point of how this health care reform is going to work, I think that we can come to a result that is a benefit to all. And that's what I think is great about our country, working through our differences to reach one outcome.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:43 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I think what most people are up in arms about is the part of this bill that would allow the public option. Meaning your employer will literally push you into the government run program. And another part of this bill will make it sorta illegal to not have insurance. With fines up to $3800 a year.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I think what most people are up in arms about is the part of this bill that would allow the public option. Meaning your employer will literally push you into the government run program. And another part of this bill will make it sorta illegal to not have insurance. With fines up to $3800 a year.
I don't mind so much the first part of your statement as I would prefer a different health care provider anyways. I don't agree with making not having insurance illegal. I mean, if it's passed into law, it'd be pretty dumb not to take it, but if you don't want it, you don't want it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:46 PM   #34 (permalink)
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If this passes you will be required to have health insurance, just like car insurance. It will not be free, if you can afford it, you will have to pay a premium, just like everyone else. The problem starts with the people that can't afford it, their premiums will be paid with taxpayer money, mine and yours. Then for people like me, it gets worse. If your insurance cost more than $8000 per year you will pay a 30% tax on the overage. This plan will bankrupt the country 30 times faster than medicare currently is. I hate paying $885 per month for my insurance, but it is mine and I can use it any way I want. It is my largest monthly payment and I do without certain things because of it, but that is my choice not the governments. If you want insurance, pay for it, if you want cheaper insurance lobby for TORT reform.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:57 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Hey Flo. It's the government. They never do anything without a catch in it. These people are making laws and bills without thinking the long term effects on the American public. I think if they had to live in our shoes for 6 months to a year. Work 2 jobs and even 3. Then would take the time to make legislation that works. The biggest mistake made in these bills are the things they slide into them (back dooring). Money (Yours & Mine) spent for basically stupid things. By lobbyists stuffing money into the pockets of all these senators. I think these people have no incite of what the common people are going thru. They sit in there nice office. Make good money. And will never have to pay Health insurance in their lives. I think this is what's ticking off a large percentage of the population.

I for one am getting tired of the political talk on this forum. Even though it's off topics. I think I will just pass on these types of threads from now on. I enjoy talking cards & the group breaks. I don't want to get into heated disscutions with people I've come to like on here. It tends to push my blood pressure up. Making it hard to sleep. And I like my Sleep time. LOL. See you on the other forums.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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If you want insurance, pay for it, if you want cheaper insurance lobby for TORT reform.
It only took 4 pages to get to the root of the problem! TORT REFORM! Why do the liberals NOT want Tort Reform? Because they are all lawyers or in bed with the ambulance chasers! What happens with all the doctors/nurses rushed into service? They get sued for their mistakes! It is a win-win for the Democrats...

Now Obama says he will pay the trillions simply by stopping fraud within the health care system... YOU DO NOT NEED TO OVERHAUL THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, JUST STOP THE FRAUD! Do we really need a law that says you cannot break the law that already exist? Are politicians really THAT stupid.

For those how honestly believe you have a choice. Obama will fine companies that do not offer coverage, those fines will be cheaper than the cost that they are currently paying. What do you think your employer will opt to do?
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Old 09-10-2009, 09:34 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Of course there in bed with all the lawyers. One of there favorites John Edwards made his fortune chasing ambulances.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Of course there in bed with all the lawyers. One of there favorites John Edwards made his fortune chasing ambulances.
Trial lawyers, there is a difference.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:48 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Amen to that - life is depressing enough - why mess up a hobby forum? We need any kind of escape we can from all the bad news out there...
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:06 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Poor KMD... Sorry you have to read about lawyers getting drug through the muck.

I agree about the tort laws guys, but I would love to have a decent talk about the options

It's not going to happen on this board though and like Fin I'm pretty tired of it.

There are so many more points that are important on this issue, but some people find it more valuable to point fingers and label people (not a single republican lawyer I guess LOL)

The fact is, I expect much more from our government and I wish people would rally for them to get something done instead of rallying around opposing viewpoints... this accomplishes nothing, just like talking about it on this board

With that said, I appreciate some posts which enlightened me but, I'll just share my viewpoints with my legislators when I deem it necessary BUT

I'll share my new cards and great pulls with all you guys, because we can all agree a nice 4 color auto rookie can be sweet or SICK LOL!
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:20 AM   #41 (permalink)
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It only took 4 pages to get to the root of the problem! TORT REFORM! Why do the liberals NOT want Tort Reform? Because they are all lawyers or in bed with the ambulance chasers! What happens with all the doctors/nurses rushed into service? They get sued for their mistakes! It is a win-win for the Democrats...

Now Obama says he will pay the trillions simply by stopping fraud within the health care system... YOU DO NOT NEED TO OVERHAUL THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, JUST STOP THE FRAUD! Do we really need a law that says you cannot break the law that already exist? Are politicians really THAT stupid.

For those how honestly believe you have a choice. Obama will fine companies that do not offer coverage, those fines will be cheaper than the cost that they are currently paying. What do you think your employer will opt to do?
I don't think the issue is that simple. I tend to lean towards some tort reform BUT the CBO, the same group everyone uses to decry the Obama cost numbers, also put out a report suggesting tort reform would do very little around the cost of health care.
Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice

Texas is a good example and the model many site as how tort reform works well. Medical malpractice insurance and lawsuits have decreased significantly yet health care insurance rates have increased at a rate consistent with the rest of the country. Many states have done tort reform and shown the same results.

The Washington Independent » Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs

Does not mean it's not a good thing but there is very little applied data to suggest it will offer the cost benefit many keep harping on.
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:27 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I don't mind so much the first part of your statement as I would prefer a different health care provider anyways. I don't agree with making not having insurance illegal. I mean, if it's passed into law, it'd be pretty dumb not to take it, but if you don't want it, you don't want it.
The problem is if you don't want it, you don't get it, but you then need it and guess who pays after the trip to the ER. As much as I want the option of not carrying insurance I also do not want to pay for people who have the means but fail to be responsible.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:10 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Poor KMD... Sorry you have to read about lawyers getting drug through the muck.
Just for the record, most of us real lawyers don't like the trial lawyers bar.
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