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Old 11-07-2012, 02:23 PM   #101 (permalink)
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This usually happens when you support a friend through blinders. Im sorry you think im obnoxious because I replied to someone putting me down.
No one put you down, stop trying to draw attention to yourself.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Why are the medical benefits of pot being discussed in a thread discussing a law that allows for recreational use?

There's no discounting the fact that marijuana alleviates, doesn't cure, the pain caused by some chronic conditions. However, Colorado votes have said yes to legalizing pot, assuming in moderation, for recreational use. This opens up distribution channels much wider than if it were only limited to medical use.

I don't think this country is mature enough to handle the distribution of a "legal" narcotic.
This statement stuck with me from what's been said since I took a nice little sleep post-election coverage

All the arguments being made tend to skirt this issue, and I tried to touch on that in my arguments. And yet it went right back to marijuana is good, it doesn't really hurt anybody, government regulation will improve control and produce revenue for the state.

To me all that doesn't matter if it increases the potential harm it can cause. People WILL do too much of it and cause health problems just like tobacco. People WILL use it and then do other activities like driving that can seriously harm others just like drunk driving. Usage may be prevalent now, but I don't see why that makes it okay to make it legal and just encourage the usage. It will only go up and add to the problems it already causes.

It's not always about the short-term gains, no addition to the state budget is worth the risk in my opinion.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #103 (permalink)
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This statement stuck with me from what's been said since I took a nice little sleep post-election coverage

All the arguments being made tend to skirt this issue, and I tried to touch on that in my arguments. And yet it went right back to marijuana is good, it doesn't really hurt anybody, government regulation will improve control and produce revenue for the state.

To me all that doesn't matter if it increases the potential harm it can cause. People WILL do too much of it and cause health problems just like tobacco. People WILL use it and then do other activities like driving that can seriously harm others just like drunk driving. Usage may be prevalent now, but I don't see why that makes it okay to make it legal and just encourage the usage. It will only go up and add to the problems it already causes.

It's not always about the short-term gains, no addition to the state budget is worth the risk in my opinion.
I still don't understand how it is okay for alcohol to be legal, but not weed? I just want to know a difference. Like honestly, what is the difference? They both are relaxation, can impair you, and that's it, right?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:29 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I don't know, but I'd be interested to find out which are more addictive and detrimental to your health (comparing perscribed pain-killers to weed). I also wonder if having recreational Weed legal will tone down the medical narcotic and pain-killer resale market.
well for me, the pain killers made me constipated so bad that the doctor said I had enough sh!t in me I could feed a family for two weeks. And I became dependent on them and addicted cause they were the only things giving me relief.

Now granite, I did smoke weed before all of that but just here and there. So when I was told to try it for my migraines, and it worked, I was so happy. And I'd say the pain-killers are more addictive and detrimental to your health these days.

down south they refer to different types of pain killers, Oxycontin and all that crap as "hillbilly heroine"
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Everyone I know who turned 21, drink LESS alcohol then they did before 21. it was exciting, a risk to them. Now it's whatever to them, boring. People like risks. Who is to say marijuana won't do the same thing? I still want to know if you want alcohol banned as well?
Studies suggest otherwise. You are talking about a personal small sample size. If this were true, then explain why those who are addicted to alochol keep drinking instead of giving it up? Abuase and addiction are just that. They arent a risk, they are addcition and abuse, a psychological habit that is hard to quit knowing full well it does harm.

On the topic of alcohol? I cant change the law that is already in place. Thats different than wanting to stop what hasnt happend already (Legalizing pot). Two different times in passing a law. 30 yrs ago you could drink and drive, get caught and probably wouldnt even get a charge. You think you can do that today? if not, why not? Because we progress. We make mistakes and learn from them. If this was 70 yrs ago and alcohol prohibition was up for talk, Id keep it banned. Today after its been legal to drink for so many decades? I wouldnt stand a chance on the argument because its the norm now. But should that negate the fact that it has led to more abuse/addiction and alochol related deaths? Certainly. So my answer is yes, if the option of bringing forth an ilegal substance today was an option, I would be against it knowing what I know about the effect of what the substance does. I cant stop you from drinking booze legally today. But I can stop you from legally having the oppurtunity to buy drugs by advocating against making it legal.

I have no issues with you wanting to legalize it. You have that choice, express it loud and clear. What I argue is how you percieve it as a one way street thinking nothing bad can come from it. Not today, but long term. Hell, when they brought forth smoking cigs and drinking booze long ago, do you think they were thinking about the long term issues of deaths caused by drinking and driving? Abuse and addiction? Or that smoking causes cancer? Thats 2nd hand smoking is detremental to others health? They didnt care back then. But they care today.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:31 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Surprise, surprise....OJ is being argumentative to a fault. And when he starts losing the argument, he gets personal.

Sorry buddy...I've seen this over the years, from the numerous forums you've been banned from.

Glad to see nothing has changed
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:34 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I still don't understand how it is okay for alcohol to be legal, but not weed? I just want to know a difference. Like honestly, what is the difference? They both are relaxation, can impair you, and that's it, right?
The problem is that you've simplified it way too much. Alcohol doesn't relax everyone. When I drink alcohol, I get chatty and start saying words I don't normally say (not socially acceptable, either). Growing up, when my friend's dad got drunk, he was a complete d!ck, including the onset of violent tendencies.

Now, I can't say the same for pot, as I've never smoked it. But, I do know it impacts people differently than just relaxed/impaired. Both my brothers are "smokers," and it impacts one hardly at all. He's still socially aware, alert, and I guess you could say, relaxed. The other, he "NEEDS" it to function in society, otherwise, he's an anxious fool that would otherwise keep to himself in his bedroom.

Honestly, this debate could go on all day. We will continue to sling mud from both sides due to experience, inexperience, education, and ignorance. I'm not against weed being legalized, but as I said before, this country doesn't have the knowledge necessary to manage this, while on both sides of our border, the substance continues to be illegal (Canadians, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:35 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Studies suggest otherwise. You are talking about a personal small sample size. If this were true, then explain why those who are addicted to alochol keep drinking instead of giving it up? Abuase and addiction are just that. They arent a risk, they are addcition and abuse, a psychological habit that is hard to quit knowing full well it does harm.

On the topic of alcohol? I cant change the law that is already in place. Thats different than wanting to stop what hasnt happend already (Legalizing pot). Two different times in passing a law. 30 yrs ago you could drink and drive, get caught and probably wouldnt even get a charge. You think you can do that today? if not, why not? Because we progress. We make mistakes and learn from them. If this was 70 yrs ago and alcohol prohibition was up for talk, Id keep it banned. Today after its been legal to drink for so many decades? I wouldnt stand a chance on the argument because its the norm now. But should that negate the fact that it has led to more abuse/addiction and alochol related deaths? Certainly. So my answer is yes, if the option of bringing forth an ilegal substance today was an option, I would be against it knowing what I know about the effect of what the substance does. I cant stop you from drinking booze legally today. But I can stop you from legally having the oppurtunity to buy drugs by advocating against making it legal.

I have no issues with you wanting to legalize it. You have that choice, express it loud and clear. What I argue is how you percieve it as a one way street thinking nothing bad can come from it. Not today, but long term. Hell, when they brought forth smoking cigs and drinking booze long ago, do you think they were thinking about the long term issues of deaths caused by drinking and driving? Abuse and addiction? Or that smoking causes cancer? Thats 2nd hand smoking is detremental to others health? They didnt care back then. But they care today.
Well your big worry is the driving part it seems. What about eating, talking on the phone, grabbing something? You shouldn't drive under the influence, nor should you drive under distress. I mean if you are paranoid about drivers under the influence, then you must be paranoid every time you drive, because the world is full of people talking on their phones while eating a big mac. That isn't safe either. Should we ban phones? Food? I mean it's like anything else, learn how to moderate it. Learn to use the bus/cab system when leaving a bar/party. Make DUI laws more stiff so people don't do it. That is how you prevent driving under the influence.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:35 PM   #109 (permalink)
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This statement stuck with me from what's been said since I took a nice little sleep post-election coverage

All the arguments being made tend to skirt this issue, and I tried to touch on that in my arguments. And yet it went right back to marijuana is good, it doesn't really hurt anybody, government regulation will improve control and produce revenue for the state.

To me all that doesn't matter if it increases the potential harm it can cause. People WILL do too much of it and cause health problems just like tobacco. People WILL use it and then do other activities like driving that can seriously harm others just like drunk driving. Usage may be prevalent now, but I don't see why that makes it okay to make it legal and just encourage the usage. It will only go up and add to the problems it already causes.

It's not always about the short-term gains, no addition to the state budget is worth the risk in my opinion.
I agree. Seems like the pro supporters of legalizing this drug are all about focussing on short term things. Long term issues might not be priority today, but just like cigarette smoking and alochol abuse concern, they eventually catch up and rear their ugly head in due time.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:36 PM   #110 (permalink)
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A certain someone sure is selective in regards to which comments he chooses to respond to.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:36 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Well your big worry is the driving part it seems. What about eating, talking on the phone, grabbing something? You shouldn't drive under the influence, nor should you drive under distress. I mean if you are paranoid about drivers under the influence, then you must be paranoid every time you drive, because the world is full of people talking on their phones while eating a big mac. That isn't safe either. Should we ban phones? Food? I mean it's like anything else, learn how to moderate it. Learn to use the bus/cab system when leaving a bar/party. Make DUI laws more stiff so people don't do it. That is how you prevent driving under the influence.
Driving while on the phone is becoming illegal in more and more places, actions like eating are probably next. So to answer your question yes, things that aren't safe AND adversely affect others are starting to be banned. And yet at the same time we legalize weed. Mixed messages to say the least.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:38 PM   #112 (permalink)
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The problem is that you've simplified it way too much. Alcohol doesn't relax everyone. When I drink alcohol, I get chatty and start saying words I don't normally say (not socially acceptable, either). Growing up, when my friend's dad got drunk, he was a complete d!ck, including the onset of violent tendencies.

Now, I can't say the same for pot, as I've never smoked it. But, I do know it impacts people differently than just relaxed/impaired. Both my brothers are "smokers," and it impacts one hardly at all. He's still socially aware, alert, and I guess you could say, relaxed. The other, he "NEEDS" it to function in society, otherwise, he's an anxious fool that would otherwise keep to himself in his bedroom.

Honestly, this debate could go on all day. We will continue to sling mud from both sides due to experience, inexperience, education, and ignorance. I'm not against weed being legalized, but as I said before, this country doesn't have the knowledge necessary to manage this, while on both sides of our border, the substance continues to be illegal (Canadians, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
Well I shouldn't of said relaxation, but they both have the same effects, so still the same in my mind haha. I just have a hard time seeing such a difference that allows alcohol to be legal, and marijuana not too be. Except for the fact that you'd have to keep marijuana out of bars and such (unless they have a special bar for it), since you could get contact high. It would literally need to be used only at home (or parties like they are already). Marijuana would need to have stricter laws than alcohol.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:41 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Well your big worry is the driving part it seems. What about eating, talking on the phone, grabbing something? You shouldn't drive under the influence, nor should you drive under distress. I mean if you are paranoid about drivers under the influence, then you must be paranoid every time you drive, because the world is full of people talking on their phones while eating a big mac. That isn't safe either. Should we ban phones? Food? I mean it's like anything else, learn how to moderate it. Learn to use the bus/cab system when leaving a bar/party. Make DUI laws more stiff so people don't do it. That is how you prevent driving under the influence.
My worry is someone high losing their perception of reality and harming someone. Thats my worry.

Eating and driving? Talking on the phone and driving? I dont know if you have been keeping up with recent times, but for years the police have been advocating that any disturbance while driving becomes and issue and has increase trafflic related accidents. They promote safe driving. Infact in some cities/states/provices they have made it ilegal to drive and talk on the phone at the same time. I know here in Toronto it is against the law to drive and talk and drive and text. You get a ticket if caught.

The word moderate doesnt exist in the vocab of an addicted person or one that abuses a substance. They have made DUI laws with stiffer penalties. Has it stopped people from drinking and driving? No. Has it had an impact? Yes. Relate that to pot use. Do you think legalizing it will stop people from abusing it? driving while high? more so than it being ilegal and harder to get?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:42 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Driving while on the phone is becoming illegal in more and more places, actions like eating are probably next. So to answer your question yes, things that aren't safe AND adversely affect others are starting to be banned. And yet at the same time we legalize weed. Mixed messages to say the least.
I know it is, especially texting, and it should be. No one is legalizing weed so people can drive high and not get in trouble. People already smoke weed as it is, so time to make money from it is what the government is thinking. I think we all forget that tons of people are using weed, the difference will be the government will be more profitable from it, not the corner house on MLK drive. Legalizing it or not, people will continue to use it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:42 PM   #115 (permalink)
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A certain someone sure is selective in regards to which comments he chooses to respond to.
I choose not to fight with you. Its easier to not say anything than it is to say something and fuel a fire. Seems like you and I dont agree and I felt your tone was demeaning. Why continue if thats the case?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:43 PM   #116 (permalink)
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My worry is someone high losing their perception of reality and harming someone. Thats my worry.

Eating and driving? Talking on the phone and driving? I dont know if you have been keeping up with recent times, but for years the police have been advocating that any disturbance while driving becomes and issue and has increase trafflic related accidents. They promote safe driving. Infact in some cities/states/provices they have made it ilegal to drive and talk on the phone at the same time. I know here in Toronto it is against the law to drive and talk and drive and text. You get a ticket if caught.

The word moderate doesnt exist in the vocab of an addicted person or one that abuses a substance. They have made DUI laws with stiffer penalties. Has it stopped people from drinking and driving? No. Has it had an impact? Yes. Relate that to pot use. Do you think legalizing it will stop people from abusing it? driving while high? more so than it being ilegal and harder to get?
You do understand that not every single marijuana user abuses and is addicted to it correct?
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I choose not to fight with you. Its easier to not say anything than it is to say something and fuel a fire. Seems like you and I dont agree and I felt your tone was demeaning. Why continue if thats the case?
I was entering into a conversation with you, at least I thought I was. I asked you a question, a nice and simple question. You would have lost the arguement guaranteed so of course you backed away into the shadows. But I do appreciate the BS excuse tho.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:45 PM   #117 (permalink)
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I know it is, especially texting, and it should be. No one is legalizing weed so people can drive high and not get in trouble. People already smoke weed as it is, so time to make money from it is what the government is thinking. I think we all forget that tons of people are using weed, the difference will be the government will be more profitable from it, not the corner house on MLK drive. Legalizing it or not, people will continue to use it.
And as I've said in almost every post I've made, this is not a good argument to me. "Everybody does it" is one not totally true and two not an excuse. The payoff, no matter how large, is not worth the increased risk and harm it will cause. Again, usage and as a result problems associated with weed will have nowhere to go but up by making it legal.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:45 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Well I shouldn't of said relaxation, but they both have the same effects, so still the same in my mind haha. I just have a hard time seeing such a difference that allows alcohol to be legal, and marijuana not too be. Except for the fact that you'd have to keep marijuana out of bars and such (unless they have a special bar for it), since you could get contact high. It would literally need to be used only at home (or parties like they are already). Marijuana would need to have stricter laws than alcohol.
I'm with you, brother, minus your statement about the UofM having some of the most intelligent students in the country (Go Bucks!) .

This just ISN'T a simple issue from any direction. Legalizing it would allow us to tax it, sure. But at what cost is the tax worth it? It'd be ignorant to think legalizing pot doesn't increase the userbase, and if any of that new userbase does something they wouldn't have normally done while under the influence of THC - say, cause harm to another - then the tax revenue wasn't worth it.

You're right about the alcohol thing, though. But we've been in that business for a VERY long time, and when we tried to get out of it, violent/bad things happened. I fear the same thing will happen with pot, except this time, it'll happen when we try to get into it. Drug cartels are a dangerous bunch of folks to be messing with. And if we can't protect our borders enough to stop people from getting their Jeeps stuck on a 14-foot tall fence, who's to say we're going to be able to stop someone with that many more resources available to them from doing more harm?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:48 PM   #119 (permalink)
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You do understand that not every single marijuana user abuses and is addicted to it correct?

I was entering into a conversation with you, at least I thought I was. I asked you a question, a nice and simple question. You would have lost the arguement guaranteed so of course you backed away into the shadows. But I do appreciate the BS excuse tho.
I do agree that 100% of the user base does not abuse nor is addicted to pot. Thats is correct.

What argument would I have lot? Because by calling me a "know it all" was going to befriend me into a debate? After you stated you were a pot user for decades, you didnt see me take a pot shot and start calling you a dope head did you? I instantly shutdown the chance at an argument as soon as you started the minor attack.

So fine, back to your statement. As a multi decade use of Pot, can you sit there and tell me that that it has absolutely no effect on you over time? None at all? Secondly, if it has or hasnt impact any part of your life, are you suggesting that its the same case for all other users?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Again, usage and as a result problems associated with weed will have nowhere to go but up by making it legal.
That has not been the case in Massachusetts since they decriminalized it. Many other studies have shown the same thing.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #121 (permalink)
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That has not been the case in Massachusetts since they decriminalized it. Many other studies have shown the same thing.
Source? Also recreational use is a whole new issue, no state has had that until now.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Because by calling me a "know it all" was going to befriend me into a debate?
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I take it then that you have personally smoked marijuana yourself? You speak as tho you are the know-it-all on the subject after all.
You really are daft enough to think and say I called you a know it all?
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:58 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Hopefully, this continues to most of the US. I'd love if it happened in Ohio
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:00 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Source? Also recreational use is a whole new issue, no state has had that until now.
"And consider this: Despite decriminalization, marijuana use among Massachusetts high-school students is actually down from a decade ago."

Medical marijuana isn’t a threat - Opinion - The Boston Globe
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:04 PM   #125 (permalink)
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"And consider this: Despite decriminalization, marijuana use among Massachusetts high-school students is actually down from a decade ago."

Medical marijuana isn’t a threat - Opinion - The Boston Globe
There's a huge difference between pot being legal for medicinal purposes, and pot being legal for recreational purposes.
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