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Old 11-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pac213up View Post
"And consider this: Despite decriminalization, marijuana use among Massachusetts high-school students is actually down from a decade ago."

Medical marijuana isn’t a threat - Opinion - The Boston Globe
Lots of holes in that source, starting with the fact that it relates to medical use. This is very different.

Also reports of usage are probably down because people with less than an ounce are getting away with it. It's just a fine, like most places people are probably getting with warnings and/or cops are just being more lenient to minor offenders. No different than a cop in a giving mood when he pulls you over for running a red light.

It's a fairly weak defense as it compares to the current issue under discussion.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #127 (permalink)
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you guys paid way too much attention in D.A.R.E. class if you think marijuana legalization/decrim is a move in the wrong direction
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #128 (permalink)
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0 OD's recorded? For what, criminal acts while high on pot? Its 0 for a reason. Because its impossible to prove after the fact. Its like the loophole that helps drunk drivers get out of a charge after they hit someone..

If you are drunk and driving, hit someone and call the cops, you request medical help because you are hurt. They ship you to the hospital. By the time the cop has a chance to get your BA level its too late. The doc knows but cant relinquish that info under doc/patient private privledge. Some drunks get off charges this way.
An OD is an overdose. The user overdoses. You cannot accidentally force someone to overdose unless you tie them up in your sleep and inject chemicals into them.

I understand you wanted to make a point, but you spun my comment HARD. It is 0 for a reason. Because the smoking/vaporizing of marijuana has no recorded deaths for the ingestors (though you can OD without dying by the strict definition). An OD only applies to the person who uses the substance.

Side note. Can we drop the "pot head" and other such remarks? Emotional, negative term usage has little place in discourse.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #129 (permalink)
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"And consider this: Despite decriminalization, marijuana use among Massachusetts high-school students is actually down from a decade ago."

Medical marijuana isn’t a threat - Opinion - The Boston Globe
Thats probably because those pot users have not moved on to harder stuff using pot as the gateway.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:21 PM   #130 (permalink)
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There's a huge difference between pot being legal for medicinal purposes, and pot being legal for recreational purposes.
Pot was FIRST decriminalized in MA. The consequences for recreational use were significantly reduced to a civil ticket. The SAME arguments were being made against it. It would encourage use, more DUIs, ect. That has not happened.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:22 PM   #131 (permalink)
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An OD is an overdose. The user overdoses. You cannot accidentally force someone to overdose unless you tie them up in your sleep and inject chemicals into them.

I understand you wanted to make a point, but you spun my comment HARD. It is 0 for a reason. Because the smoking/vaporizing of marijuana has no recorded deaths for the ingestors (though you can OD without dying by the strict definition). An OD only applies to the person who uses the substance.

Side note. Can we drop the "pot head" and other such remarks? Emotional, negative term usage has little place in discourse.
Then why use 0 related deaths to over dose? Was it to suggest that its a good thing? I can rip of numerous things that are related to causing illness and death but have 0 direct links to being the cause of the illness. Thats a spin if you want one!!

How big of a sample size is that knowing full well that the suvery must only include those who smoke pot, willing to admit it and have had no issues with OD. You really think they went searching to find negative impacts the drug causes when their influence is dependant on postive results?
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Pot was FIRST decriminalized in MA. The consequences for recreational use were significantly reduced to a civil ticket. The SAME arguments were being made against it. It would encourage use, more DUIs, ect. That has not happened.
they don't care and will continue with their arguments based on government propaganda spewing, or regurgitating.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Then why use 0 related deaths to over dose? Was it to suggest that its a good thing? I can rip of numerous things that are related to causing illness and death but have 0 direct links to being the cause of the illness. Thats a spin if you want one!!

How big of a sample size is that knowing full well that the suvery must only include those who smoke pot, willing to admit it and have had no issues with OD. You really think they went searching to find negative impacts the drug causes when their influence is dependant on postive results?
it is physically impossible to die from a marijuana overdose.

the cannabinoid compounds in the drug actually trigger your body to release it's own cannabinoids that it makes and that is what gets you stoned.

your body will simply never produce enough of the cannabinoids to effectively kill you.

now, if you're allergic to mold and smoke moldy bud, that might do the trick. but in that case, it is the mold that kills, not the bud.


BTW- you do realize you're fighting to keep a flower illegal
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:27 PM   #134 (permalink)
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I think this begs repeating as there were few responses.

Taboo substances beg to be used by those who might not ever choose to try something like marijuana, were it next to cheese at the grocery store.

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Seems odd at first, but this is quite telling.

America has, it would seem, the highest drinking age in the Western World. Kids still drink in high school, then when they leave for college? They don't know how to handle themselves. They see all this newfound freedom and party like it's going out of style. A Harvard study suggested that around 80% of college students drink, while about 20% are binge drinkers. Young adults in the US handle alcohol far worse than their European counterparts. Many have a glass of wine with their parents at age 16 and think, "Oh neat. Don't need to do this all the time, but it can be enjoyable."

It's all about the taboo of drinking. Take that away and it suddenly becomes less interesting. Same with marijuana. Remove the societal taboo and remove the curiousty.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:30 PM   #135 (permalink)
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So fine, back to your statement. As a multi decade use of Pot, can you sit there and tell me that that it has absolutely no effect on you over time? None at all? Secondly, if it has or hasnt impact any part of your life, are you suggesting that its the same case for all other users?
Any effects it has had over time would be positive, and you don't want to hear any of that.

Of course I would not suggest it's the same case for all other users.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:32 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Then why use 0 related deaths to over dose? Was it to suggest that its a good thing? I can rip of numerous things that are related to causing illness and death but have 0 direct links to being the cause of the illness. Thats a spin if you want one!!

How big of a sample size is that knowing full well that the suvery must only include those who smoke pot, willing to admit it and have had no issues with OD. You really think they went searching to find negative impacts the drug causes when their influence is dependant on postive results?
Scientifically speaking, the amount of marijuana a person would have to smoke to have a deadly OD is impossible.

It's simply taking into account the LD 50 and measuring it in a lab setting. You cannot ingest that much marijuana that quickly, for it to kill you. It's akin to trying to eat 100 lbs of meat in an hour.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Any effects it has had over time would be positive, and you don't want to hear any of that.

Of course I would not suggest it's the same case for all other users.
it's true: it has been proven in other countries to reduce the overall cancer rate in habitual users. but, as you said, it is different with every person.

it has far fewer carcinogens than tobacco. nuff said.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #138 (permalink)
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they don't care and will continue with their arguments based on government propaganda spewing, or regurgitating.
Let's keep it civil shall we? Don't paint us as some conservative lemmings because we feel people should be mature enough to survive without weed. Nobody ever died from lack of weed.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:34 PM   #139 (permalink)
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it's true: it has been proven in other countries to reduce the overall cancer rate in habitual users. but, as you said, it is different with every person.

it has far fewer carcinogens than tobacco. nuff said.
Everything under the sun practically reduces the risk of some cancer.

And tobacco is bad too, how are those arguments?
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #140 (permalink)
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I think it's funny to hear people say that marijuana being legalized will result in more dead brained people who cannot think for themselves and are complete wastes of space. While you may indeed see or hear of those people smoking, you have to consider with or without this plant they are going to be losers, and people are just going to use weed as something to blame for their actions.

There is a whole lot of successful people that enjoy a joint after they get home from work instead of a few beers or a glass of wine. Also for those who say that having these stoned people driving is a danger to the public, have you ever ridden with an experienced smoker while they were driving? No slowed reaction time no adverse effects and more concentration to what's going on around them. You aren't dizzy and disoriented like you would be from alcohol, however if you are a new or unexperienced smoker driving is definitely something you should wait on until you can handle the buzz without negative effects.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:39 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Let's keep it civil shall we? Don't paint us as some conservative lemmings because we feel people should be mature enough to survive without weed. Nobody ever died from lack of weed.
sure, i will keep it civil. i never said conservatives, just government propoganda spewing. it just seems as if those who are opposed are relying on old data and misinformation to make their points. those people tend to overlook the positives while accentuating the negatives.

would you answer me this:

since we have tried and tried and tried to enforce, punish and prosecute marijuana offenders for nearly 100 years, why can't we try something different, like decriminalizing it?

i understand that is a huge jump from where we are at now. but can we not at least try?
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #142 (permalink)
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they don't care and will continue with their arguments based on government propaganda spewing, or regurgitating.
You're sensationalizing our "side" of the conversation. I didn't spew or regurgitate any political propaganda. I am not on your (for) or OJ's (against) side.

I simply believe this country isn't ready to manage a market it knows nothing about. I guess that's why they're aloof-ly leaving it in the hands of the individual states to decide, much like same sex marriage.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:42 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Everything under the sun practically reduces the risk of some cancer.

And tobacco is bad too, how are those arguments?
the first statement is simply not true, too much burnt toast can cause cancer. look it up!

so tobacco is bad = legal
marijuana is not as bad = illegal

how is that an argument?
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #144 (permalink)
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You're sensationalizing our "side" of the conversation. I didn't spew or regurgitate any political propaganda. I am not on your (for) or OJ's (against) side.

I simply believe this country isn't ready to manage a market it knows nothing about. I guess that's why they're aloof-ly leaving it in the hands of the individual states to decide, much like same sex marriage.
ok, i can totally dig this rationale. it makes sense!

i am all for states rights... but that trickles down to personal rights as well.

also, i was mainly pointing towards OJ and friar with that statement. you at least acknowledge the points made and have meaningful posts to back up your argument.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #145 (permalink)
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it is physically impossible to die from a marijuana overdose.

the cannabinoid compounds in the drug actually trigger your body to release it's own cannabinoids that it makes and that is what gets you stoned.

your body will simply never produce enough of the cannabinoids to effectively kill you.

now, if you're allergic to mold and smoke moldy bud, that might do the trick. but in that case, it is the mold that kills, not the bud.


BTW- you do realize you're fighting to keep a flower illegal
Yep. Exacty where just about all narcotics come from. Poppies, buds, flowers and seeds. Im not fighting the flower. Im fighting the impairing effect it can do and the right to exploit them for public use that could potentially danger society. If I could do it for smoking and booze, I would. But unforunately as of right now they are legal. Maybe that might change one day. But for the present pot is ilegal, and my stance is to keep it that way before it wreaks havoc.

For everytime you gaurentee me that it wont wreak havoc, I will counter it with booz and cigarettes asking you the same question on how they claimed it would never cause the problems it does today yet we deal with them directly now.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Yep. Exacty where just about all narcotics come from. Poppies, buds, flowers and seeds. Im not fighting the flower. Im fighting the impairing effect it can do and the right to exploit them for public use that could potentially danger society. If I could do it for smoking and booze, I would. But unforunately as of right now they are legal. Maybe that might change one day. But for the present pot is ilegal, and my stance is to keep it that way before it wreaks havoc.

For everytime you gaurentee me that it wont wreak havoc, I will counter it with booz and cigarettes asking you the same question on how they claimed it would never cause the problems it does today yet we deal with them directly now.

I'm sorry, but I find you so hypocritical (also, it is time to use your spell check).

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Any effects it has had over time would be positive, and you don't want to hear any of that.

Of course I would not suggest it's the same case for all other users.
Before I continue, I want to make sure I understand your stance.

Do you advocate absolutely no negative impact on quality of life due to an increase use of pot? Or was that statement personally based on you?

I want make certain that either
1. Pot has zero negative impact on life and quality of life
2. It does but it hasnt personally affected you in a negative way.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #148 (permalink)
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Yep. Exacty where just about all narcotics come from. Poppies, buds, flowers and seeds. Im not fighting the flower. Im fighting the impairing effect it can do and the right to exploit them for public use that could potentially danger society. If I could do it for smoking and booze, I would. But unforunately as of right now they are legal. Maybe that might change one day. But for the present pot is ilegal, and my stance is to keep it that way before it wreaks havoc.

For everytime you gaurentee me that it wont wreak havoc, I will counter it with booz and cigarettes asking you the same question on how they claimed it would never cause the problems it does today yet we deal with them directly now.
i am still missing the point where pot is wreaking havoc on society.. prove it, show me, don't tell me SHOW ME PROOF.

people usually get to decide for themselves how to live life:

we can have unprotected sex, drink till we die or kill others, jump in front of a truck..... anyway, my point is, what right do you have to deny everyone else their right to chose what they want to do???
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Before I continue, I want to make sure I understand your stance.

Do you advocate absolutely no negative impact on quality of life due to an increase use of pot? Or was that statement personally based on you?

I want make certain that either
1. Pot has zero negative impact on life and quality of life
2. It does but it hasnt personally affected you in a negative way.
You asked me a personal question so I answered it personally. It amazes me that I'M supposed to be the brain-dead moron of the two of us.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:54 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Yep. Exacty where just about all narcotics come from. Poppies, buds, flowers and seeds. Im not fighting the flower. Im fighting the impairing effect it can do and the right to exploit them for public use that could potentially danger society. If I could do it for smoking and booze, I would. But unforunately as of right now they are legal. Maybe that might change one day. But for the present pot is ilegal, and my stance is to keep it that way before it wreaks havoc.

For everytime you gaurentee me that it wont wreak havoc, I will counter it with booz and cigarettes asking you the same question on how they claimed it would never cause the problems it does today yet we deal with them directly now.
I do not mind using myself as an example so let's see your response to how it has negatively effected me.

I have been smoking for about 7 years total and 4 of them have been multiple times daily, I have a decent job in the field of work I am looking to make a career out of. I have been driving stoned daily for the past 3 years and have never had an accident of any type. Never been arrested for anything, I choose to spend some of my extra money on a practically harmless plant. I have never felt the temptation to try harder drugs because weed works for me. I am one of the most calm and reasonable people you will ever meet, and I am all for personal choice when it comes to a natural type of medicine that has been used by some of our most famed founding fathers (Washington,Jefferson,Lincoln)

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