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Old 11-07-2012, 03:56 PM   #151 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, but I find you so hypocritical (also, it is time to use your spell check).
Im wondering where within that that I advocate you get trashed and go kill someone by driving? That post means nothing beside me telling someone that certain methods of drinking can alter perception faster than others. Its a scientific observation more than anything.

My stance has always been the same. I do not want to add any more substances to the legal list that could lead to more damage on society. Its been the same all along. I cant do anything about the list that already exists. But I can work to make sure that more is not added to it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Im wondering where within that that I advocate you get trashed and go kill someone by driving? That post means nothing beside me telling someone that certain methods of drinking can alter perception faster than others. Its a scientific observation more than anything.

My stance has always been the same. I do not want to add any more substances to the legal list that could lead to more damage on society. Its been the same all along. I cant do anything about the list that already exists. But I can work to make sure that more is not added to it.
Makes you look like a dong. Enough for me.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #153 (permalink)
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I want make certain that either
1. Pot has zero negative impact on life and quality of life
2. It does but it hasnt personally affected you in a negative way.
i think the positives severely outweigh the negatives.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Get that Rocky Mountain High on! For real though, I'm sure the feds will attempt to nip this in the bud just like in Cali w/ medicinal marijuana.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Makes you look like a dong. Enough for me.
I thought girls liked dong

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i think the positives severely outweigh the negatives.
I'd like to think they're even at this point. Those sitting on the opposite end of each side has a slightly impaired perspective of the other. I respect your opinion just as much as I respect OJ's (up until the point Ooosh pointed out the major flaw in OJ's alcohol stance), but it's not a "let us set this in motion and see what happens" kind of thing. We must know the choice we're making is the right one before embarking.

Roe V. Wade is a perfect example of the government not sticking their hand in a fire they have no business stoking (sp?). I believe legalizing marijuana at a federal level is the same type of fire.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #156 (permalink)
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sure, i will keep it civil. i never said conservatives, just government propoganda spewing. it just seems as if those who are opposed are relying on old data and misinformation to make their points. those people tend to overlook the positives while accentuating the negatives.

would you answer me this:

since we have tried and tried and tried to enforce, punish and prosecute marijuana offenders for nearly 100 years, why can't we try something different, like decriminalizing it?

i understand that is a huge jump from where we are at now. but can we not at least try?
I meant conservative in the sense of being reserved, not political. Just wanted to clarify since this thread has been pretty good so far but we all know this could drop off a cliff at any moment being Blowout and all

I still believe it goes back to the inability of the majority to be responsible adults about things like this. Look at tobacco and alcohol. Tobacco kills millions, considered one of the biggest causes of death in the country. Alcohol kills many as well through actions like drunk driving. The only reason they aren't bigger issues is because they are so ingrained as part of society that any resistance would be met with major backlash.

But let's examine why that backlash exists. Nobody can deny those products are bad, health issues are directly linked to them. Nobody can deny they affect others, secondhand smoke and drunk driving for example directly affect even those who are trying to avoid those substances. So why do people fight so hard to keep them? For the same reasons people have outlined in this thread in defense of weed. But let's examine these arguments in more detail since they apply really to all substances ranging from beer to weed to even things like caffeine:

1) It's a personal a choice, it's about freedom: This is all well and good, and yes in America freedom of choice is a foundation of our society. However, the issue is that it affects others. I can be as drug-free as anyone, but when the guy drunk or stoned out of his mind t-bones my car it won't matter. No personal freedom is valid to me if it inhibits my freedoms, most people agree with this logic.

2) People do it anyway: Sure, but that's true for a lot of things. People do cocaine, people rape and molest for pleasure, heck people run around naked shouting obscenities in public. I have a problem with ever using this logic as an excuse. You can't tell me that if something like weed suddenly becomes perfectly legal that it won't significantly increase the usage. It's just simple logic. How many people would try it simply because they can now? Plenty, and therefore having something illegal at the very least keeps it in check to an extent and that's a good thing.

3) Let the government tax and regulate it: Sort of follows argument two in the sense that since people believe every does it, why not let the government control it and profit from it. It's a valid argument yes, but not when you factor in the harm these substances cause. Let me use a hypothetical, and let me stress it's a hypothetical. Let's say weed caused birth defects, and the rate of children born with them is rising because of the increased use of weed due to it being legal. To me no revenue the government is producing can cancel something like that out. Some things are more important than money, and to me the harm things like weed can cause outweigh the monetary benefit.

4) It has medical benefits: This one really shouldn't even be coming up in this thread because it's completely different. The discussion here is not does marijuana have medicinal benefits, the discussion here is should people be allowed to use it for whatever whenever they want.

5) People are smart enough to use in moderation: Some yes, but many no. Just look at all the addicts who use other substances. It's sad and it borderlines on the government babysitting citizens by controlling their vices, but there are just too many idiots out there. We can't trust society at large to do the right thing all the time.

At the end of the day, my issue is that I don't see any good reason for letting anyone use marijuana for recreation except for pleasure. I have a hard time letting people make an argument for pleasure when there are so many other issues and problems associated with weed. To be frank, I could give a crap if someone enjoys weed for recreational use. That's not enough of a reason for me to want to deal with all the problems that come with it. Alcohol is a prime comparison. Health problems, accidents, death. But hey it's a good time so let's look past all that. Bad excuse, and a selfish and short-sighted one in my humble opinion. And as I've mentioned I drink but would give up that right for the greater good because a little pleasure doesn't amount to much in the big picture.

You can make arguments all day that weed isn't that addictive, that usage won't increase much, that it's not that harmful, etc. And there may be merit to every one of those arguments. But at the end of the day the decision is black and white. Either weed is legal or not. And from that standpoint, I don't see enough benefit if any to outweigh the risks and harm and problems that will be allowed to grow by just letting everyone smoke weed. Medicinal is another argument, can't stress that enough it's not included in this viewpoint.

I've said it the best I possibly can, some people will still disagree but I don't like that something like this is passing because of the idiots who want to get high. As I mentioned in an earlier post, many people supporting something like this are not doing it for the right reasons because honestly there really aren't enough right reasons to justify it. The same jerks who scam people for trading cards and use food stamps to buy lobster are the same majority who can get something like this to pass. They are only joined in numbers by a minority like us who actually evaluate the situation and make an informed decision.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:03 PM   #157 (permalink)
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i am still missing the point where pot is wreaking havoc on society.. prove it, show me, don't tell me SHOW ME PROOF.

people usually get to decide for themselves how to live life:

we can have unprotected sex, drink till we die or kill others, jump in front of a truck..... anyway, my point is, what right do you have to deny everyone else their right to chose what they want to do???
How do you prove a negative. If I give you a list of coke heads and heroin users that are alive and living, does that mean Heroin and Cocaine are not killers? Therefore Cocaine and Heroin is not wreaking havoc on society becasue some people have no issues while on it.

Im not telling you what to decide/do or how to live your life. Im telling that pot is ilegal and I want to keep it that way. If anything, Im following the laws put in place within my society. If I dont like them, I could always leave. Same with you. Having unprotected sex is legal. So it drinking. Jumping in front of a truck...I dont know, isnt that against the law to purposely commit an act that could potentially threaten the safety of an innocent life?

Im not denying your choice. Im adhereing to the laws that the govt sets. They have set them as ilegal, and I do not wish to challenge that. That in noway affects your right to challenge it or object it. The law is the law.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:05 PM   #158 (permalink)
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I do not mind using myself as an example so let's see your response to how it has negatively effected me.

I have been smoking for about 7 years total and 4 of them have been multiple times daily, I have a decent job in the field of work I am looking to make a career out of. I have been driving stoned daily for the past 3 years and have never had an accident of any type. Never been arrested for anything, I choose to spend some of my extra money on a practically harmless plant. I have never felt the temptation to try harder drugs because weed works for me. I am one of the most calm and reasonable people you will ever meet, and I am all for personal choice when it comes to a natural type of medicine that has been used by some of our most famed founding fathers (Washington,Jefferson,Lincoln)

Don't tell me what I can or can't do cause it's none of ya business


I am cool with everything you wrote up to the driving part.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:06 PM   #159 (permalink)
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How do you prove a negative. If I give you a list of coke heads and heroin users that are alive and living, does that mean Heroin and Cocaine are not killers? Therefore Cocaine and Heroin is not wreaking havoc on society becasue some people have no issues while on it.

Im not telling you what to decide/do or how to live your life. Im telling that pot is ilegal and I want to keep it that way. If anything, Im following the laws put in place within my society. If I dont like them, I could always leave. Same with you. Having unprotected sex is legal. So it drinking. Jumping in front of a truck...I dont know, isnt that against the law to purposely commit an act that could potentially threaten the safety of an innocent life?

Im not denying your choice. Im adhereing to the laws that the govt sets. They have set them as ilegal, and I do not wish to challenge that. That in noway affects your right to challenge it or object it. The law is the law.
Not trying to pick a fight but have you ever gone over the speed limit?
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Makes you look like a dong. Enough for me.
are you here to debate or cause a flame war? All you have done is call me names because I happen to object against your views?

Pretty typical these days. Name call and get angry because someone doesnt agree with you. Ill give a few days before the get along gang jumps me and starts the typical barrage that imac gets all because of my stance on drugs.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:10 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Not trying to pick a fight but have you ever gone over the speed limit?
Yep I have. If caught I would face a fine. If neglegent, I would cause an accident and possibly cause harm which would lead to harsher penalties. I have broken the law if going over the speed limit technically.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I am cool with everything you wrote up to the driving part.
If it makes you feel any better I do not smoke before work so most of my driving is done sober, however if I have to do something or go somewhere I know I can safely get to wherever I need to be. I knew the driving part would ruffle some feathers.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:14 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Im not telling you what to decide/do or how to live your life. Im telling that pot is ilegal and I want to keep it that way. If anything, Im following the laws put in place within my society. If I dont like them, I could always leave. Same with you.

Im not denying your choice. Im adhereing to the laws that the govt sets. They have set them as ilegal, and I do not wish to challenge that. That in noway affects your right to challenge it or object it. The law is the law.
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Not trying to pick a fight but have you ever gone over the speed limit?
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Yep I have. If caught I would face a fine. If neglegent, I would cause an accident and possibly cause harm which would lead to harsher penalties. I have broken the law if going over the speed limit technically.
Even you have to see how hypocritical you are.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #164 (permalink)
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are you here to debate or cause a flame war? All you have done is call me names because I happen to object against your views?

Pretty typical these days. Name call and get angry because someone doesnt agree with you. Ill give a few days before the get along gang jumps me and starts the typical barrage that imac gets all because of my stance on drugs.
I think the problem is the perceived hypocrisy.

You were quoted as being a "knowledgable" drinker who is more informed about specific beers than the average drinker. Yet you claim to be adamantly against the legal nature of drinking. It would seem that one who is against alcohol's legal status wouldn't allegedly add money to the coffers of alcohol conglomerates by buying beer.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Even you have to see how hypocritical you are.
I try my best to adhere to them. I never claimed to be perfect.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #166 (permalink)
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You asked me a personal question so I answered it personally. It amazes me that I'M supposed to be the brain-dead moron of the two of us.
Ok since that was on a personal basis..

Do you think your "No negative" impact will the same for everyone that uses pot? abuses pot? gets addicted to pot?
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #167 (permalink)
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If it makes you feel any better I do not smoke before work so most of my driving is done sober, however if I have to do something or go somewhere I know I can safely get to wherever I need to be. I knew the driving part would ruffle some feathers.
I am a proponent of marijuana. I cannot agree with driving high though. And before anyone asks, I drink but I have never drank and drove nor will I.

I would ask you to reconsider smoking and driving. Nothing good can come out from that.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Ok since that was on a personal basis..

Do you think your "No negative" impact will the same for everyone that uses pot? abuses pot? gets addicted to pot?
That was your second question in comment #119 and your answer is awaiting you in comment #135.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:27 PM   #169 (permalink)
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I think the problem is the perceived hypocrisy.

You were quoted as being a "knowledgable" drinker who is more informed about specific beers than the average drinker. Yet you claim to be adamantly against the legal nature of drinking. It would seem that one who is against alcohol's legal status wouldn't allegedly add money to the coffers of alcohol conglomerates by buying beer.

Here is the quote of me

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If you want to get drunk cheap and fast? Just drink beer through a straw. Drink it fast as well. Just try it and youll see what im talking about.

If you are looking for strong beers that get you looped,

Molson Cold Shots = 6% alchohol in a small 200 ml can. Gets you drunk without having ot drink too much and pissing

Molson XXX ice = Nasty tasting beer with high alcohol content like 8 or 10%.
Yes I am against drinking if it leads to impairing yourself to the point where you can harm someone. This doesnt mean I drink. It also doesnt mean I support or dont support these companies. Just because I know what certain methods can do to you doesnt mean I do them. It means I have knowledge on the issues at hand.

I see where this is leading to. If you dont agree with legalizing pot, you are deemed a hater!! To each their own I guess.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:29 PM   #170 (permalink)
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That was your second question in comment #119 and your answer is awaiting you in comment #135.
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Any effects it has had over time would be positive, and you don't want to hear any of that.

Of course I would not suggest it's the same case for all other users.
When I get time ill answer this question with medical studies done that show negative impact on the long term use of pot. As this has been my argument that pot has negative impanct on people thus needs to say ilegal.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:30 PM   #171 (permalink)
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When I get time ill answer this question with medical studies done that show negative impact on the long term use of pot. As this has been my argument that pot has negative impanct on people thus needs to say ilegal.
It also has positive impact on people. I am an example right here in front of you. Why are you pushing me and the others aside just to clear room on the table for your "evidence"?

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Old 11-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #172 (permalink)
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such a circle jerk argument. I saw it coming and still gave you a chance.

You're right. Pot has been ilegal because its an evil scheme by the world to keep it from you. Good Job! Its actually better than blueberries for your health!!
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:35 PM   #173 (permalink)
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I see where this is leading to. If you dont agree with legalizing pot, you are deemed a hater!! To each their own I guess.
Nah, I'd say it's more the arguments as a member or two on both sides have brought up questionable rationales.

Your first response to me suggested you didn't know what ODing is, by suggesting that OD deaths are linked to killing others on the road. You also seem to skip replies when the scientific method is invoked (i.e. the Ld 50 of marijuana.

No offense against you as a human being, but friar and other members against the legalization of marijuana simply seem to have less emotional, more informed arguments.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #174 (permalink)
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i think orange was one of those guys that smoked 1 time and got so scared he now thinks its evil,,,,
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Yep I have. If caught I would face a fine. If neglegent, I would cause an accident and possibly cause harm which would lead to harsher penalties. I have broken the law if going over the speed limit technically.
Then, in your way of thought shouldn't cars be illegal?
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