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Old 07-11-2010, 08:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 1 Box Ringside Boxing KO

I guell I REALLY should have done some homework on this before going to my card show today. This and my Allen & Ginter were my so-worst expendatures of the day.

Base Cards 19-29
Ali SP card 89
Turkey Red Vinny Paz, Emile Griffith and Livingstone Bramble

Autos
Gerry Cooney
Junior Jones

Memorabilia Larry Holmes Robe

Spent $185 and got $50 worth of hits and maybe $15-$20 worth of base cards...I thought it was a no-no to hit below the belt.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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yikes! and those KO boxes were hand picked. unless you pull an ali auto, you're going to lose money
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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yikes! and those KO boxes were hand picked. unless you pull an ali auto, you're going to lose money
Or a Tyson
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default IMHO... off the top of my head...

I think the market is tough for any product that relies on sports figures from the past. The average 20-30 yr old collector didn't experience Frazier, Cooney, Griffith, Pryor, and a bunch of the boxers in the set.

Personally I think of Frazier as the second greatest modern day boxer. His battles with Ali were epic. I would bet on him against Tyson at both their peaks. Tyson was a great boxer. Why does Tyson sell better, he's more current and was in a funny movie.

There really aren't a lot of vintage collectors if you average them out with guys buying new stuff. Rookies and Strasburg Mania are the real active sectors of the hobby.

Maybe some day we'll have a decent chat room setup to discuss this kind of stuff. It would be nice to have a regular Thursday night get together.

Best to All,
Vinny
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think the market is tough for any product that relies on sports figures from the past. The average 20-30 yr old collector didn't experience Frazier, Cooney, Griffith, Pryor, and a bunch of the boxers in the set.

Personally I think of Frazier as the second greatest modern day boxer. His battles with Ali were epic. I would bet on him against Tyson at both their peaks. Tyson was a great boxer. Why does Tyson sell better, he's more current and was in a funny movie.

There really aren't a lot of vintage collectors if you average them out with guys buying new stuff. Rookies and Strasburg Mania are the real active sectors of the hobby.

Maybe some day we'll have a decent chat room setup to discuss this kind of stuff. It would be nice to have a regular Thursday night get together.

Best to All,
Vinny
I agree 100%

If these guys aren't on Sportscenter,no one will have a clue who they are. A true collector,and someone who is a true boxing fan knows the greatness and the place in boxing history these guys hold.

I will disagree on Tyson. To me,he was great because he could knock you out,but if the fight went past the 3rd or 4th round,then he was in trouble as he didn't know how to actually fight
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I agree 100%

If these guys aren't on Sportscenter,no one will have a clue who they are. A true collector,and someone who is a true boxing fan knows the greatness and the place in boxing history these guys hold.

I will disagree on Tyson. To me,he was great because he could knock you out,but if the fight went past the 3rd or 4th round,then he was in trouble as he didn't know how to actually fight
Tyson was known for ending fights early, having 36 knockouts in 4 rounds or less..but for fights past the 4th round he went 6-4. Not horrible..but not a championship record either. I think he deserves the credit given.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not a huge boxing buff at all, but I love reading stories of boxing matches that went 20 rounds and more. Just something about toughness of those guys, that I just envy. Some great names: Jack Dempsy, John L. Sullivan, Jack Johnson, Kid McCoy, Jim Corbett, etc.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah, I think one of the most fun things about ringside (next to pulling one of the big autos and stuff) is reading the backs of all the cards. They actually increased my appreciation of the sport. I have the "Facing Ali" documentary in me Netflix queue because of all of this Ringside business.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yikes! and those KO boxes were hand picked. unless you pull an ali auto, you're going to lose money
I have to agree...even in our group break the only person to make any money was the Ali auto slot. I had 4 slots and got a Tyson auto which covered 2 slots. I think I'll break even with everything sold!
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm not a huge boxing buff at all, but I love reading stories of boxing matches that went 20 rounds and more. Just something about toughness of those guys, that I just envy. Some great names: Jack Dempsy, John L. Sullivan, Jack Johnson, Kid McCoy, Jim Corbett, etc.
I was never a big fan of boxing growing up, but products like these, including Sportkings of course, gives me a new appreciation for these great sports figures. So much so that I'm only missing an autograph of Kid McCoy of these 5 that you mentioned. Just reading about these guys, (because of these products), is awe inspiring and something I would have never done if it weren't for an interest in these products.

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Yeah, I think one of the most fun things about ringside (next to pulling one of the big autos and stuff) is reading the backs of all the cards. They actually increased my appreciation of the sport. I have the "Facing Ali" documentary in me Netflix queue because of all of this Ringside business.
I couldn't agree more! (see above post of mine).

And these boxing on-card autograph "cards" look so good in person. This is truly an under appreciated product that will only grow in value over time. It's a no-brainer in my opinion, and I believe very few complete sets of the autographed cards will be put together, making those that are quite appealing in the collecting world.

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I have to agree...even in our group break the only person to make any money was the Ali auto slot. I had 4 slots and got a Tyson auto which covered 2 slots. I think I'll break even with everything sold!
It's not always about making money. I'll say it again...boxing "collectors" LOVE this product. They are the end-users of this product, and I think they are very, very pleased with it. Actually, I know they are.

It's unfortunate that in a bad economy, people can't make money on every box of cards. There are people that made money on this product, and there are probably more that are losing money because they don't know the best way to sell these cards. I will make money on my cards as well as add to my PC, and I didn't have an above average break either.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Tyson was known for ending fights early, having 36 knockouts in 4 rounds or less..but for fights past the 4th round he went 6-4. Not horrible..but not a championship record either. I think he deserves the credit given.
OK, for those of us who recall his entire career, he was a perfect 4-0 in fights that went the distance while being managed by Kevin Rooney/Cus D'Amato. He was also one of the best defensive boxers that I had ever seen during this time (nobody could touch Sugar Ray Leonard for my money).

Once Don King got his hands on him and he dumped Rooney, he regressed and became nothing but a brawler. Had he stayed the course with Rooney, I belive that he could (not would but could) have been talked about with Ali as the best hevyweights ever.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's not always about making money. I'll say it again...boxing "collectors" LOVE this product. They are the end-users of this product, and I think they are very, very pleased with it. Actually, I know they are.

It's unfortunate that in a bad economy, people can't make money on every box of cards. There are people that made money on this product, and there are probably more that are losing money because they don't know the best way to sell these cards. I will make money on my cards as well as add to my PC, and I didn't have an above average break either.
Yes we all know it's not always about making money...but there are "collectors" for every sport out there...some do it for the love of "collecting" for their pc some do it to make a quick sale so they can buy different items for their pc. It's not about the best way to sell the cards sometimes...sometimes its the product that just does not sell. This product is a great example of that. Unless you pull the Ali auto then you will not make money on this product. If I were to go out right now and buy this product it's a guaranteed loss when trying to resell if I do not pull an Ali auto. I sold my Tyson Auto for $170..the other autos sold for no more than $38 total (being Whitaker & Barkley). Like I said I think I'm lucky if I break even on this. Not everyone can afford to break cases like you. Not everyone is fortunate to have a pc like yours and have the attitude of "even if the case is at a loss it's for my pc". I just don't think you are looking at the big picture of the hobby...you're looking at it as a collector!
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes we all know it's not always about making money...but there are "collectors" for every sport out there...some do it for the love of "collecting" for their pc some do it to make a quick sale so they can buy different items for their pc. It's not about the best way to sell the cards sometimes...sometimes its the product that just does not sell. This product is a great example of that. Unless you pull the Ali auto then you will not make money on this product. If I were to go out right now and buy this product it's a guaranteed loss when trying to resell if I do not pull an Ali auto. I sold my Tyson Auto for $170..the other autos sold for no more than $38 total (being Whitaker & Barkley). Like I said I think I'm lucky if I break even on this. Not everyone can afford to break cases like you. Not everyone is fortunate to have a pc like yours and have the attitude of "even if the case is at a loss it's for my pc". I just don't think you are looking at the big picture of the hobby...you're looking at it as a collector!
You're exactly right! As a "collector", this is a fantastic product. If you're going to buy products to rip and flip, you're not going to get it right every time. I doubt this product was made for the rip and flippers. I would guess it was made more so for the collectors, again because they are the end-users.

And FYI, to contradict some of your post, I did NOT pull an Ali auto, and I WILL make money on my case because I will sell my cards for a profit. I'm not in this for the quick buck. I don't have to unload cards because I can't afford my "hobby" of ripping and flipping. I have no need to sell my cards for dirt cheap if that's what the "ebay market" is bearing. There are other, and often better, ways to sell cards. I buy and occasionally sell when the time is right and when the demand/money is there. If you sell right, you will lessen your chances of losing money. In fact, if you sell right, you will increase your chances of making money, which is exactly what I'm doing.

I feel sorry for all those rip and flippers with little money hoping to make a quick buck only to have to sell their cards for much less than what they should be selling them for because they are desperate to recoup at least some of what they just over spent.

Just know this one simple fact...when a seller is unhappy because of a selling price, there is a collector that is quite happy. Sounds a lot like "for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction". And if one seller sold to several different collectors, (even just 2), and he is unhappy with his sales as a whole, there are more "collectors" that are happy than that one seller. Adding it all up, this product probably made more people happy than it made sad or disgruntled.

It's a great product with more satisfied people than unsatisfied people.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You're exactly right! As a "collector", this is a fantastic product. If you're going to buy products to rip and flip, you're not going to get it right every time. I doubt this product was made for the rip and flippers. I would guess it was made more so for the collectors, again because they are the end-users.

And FYI, to contradict some of your post, I did NOT pull an Ali auto, and I WILL make money on my case because I will sell my cards for a profit. I'm not in this for the quick buck. I don't have to unload cards because I can't afford my "hobby" of ripping and flipping. I have no need to sell my cards for dirt cheap if that's what the "ebay market" is bearing. There are other, and often better, ways to sell cards. I buy and occasionally sell when the time is right and when the demand/money is there. If you sell right, you will lessen your chances of losing money. In fact, if you sell right, you will increase your chances of making money, which is exactly what I'm doing.

I feel sorry for all those rip and flippers with little money hoping to make a quick buck only to have to sell their cards for much less than what they should be selling them for because they are desperate to recoup at least some of what they just over spent.

Just know this one simple fact...when a seller is unhappy because of a selling price, there is a collector that is quite happy. Sounds a lot like "for every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction". And if one seller sold to several different collectors, (even just 2), and he is unhappy with his sales as a whole, there are more "collectors" that are happy than that one seller. Adding it all up, this product probably made more people happy than it made sad or disgruntled.

It's a great product with more satisfied people than unsatisfied people.
While I do not rip and flip I also know when to sell a card while it's "hot". As the cards get older and the newer version of the auto/rarer versions come out it lessens the value of the one you are holding. Even "collectors" get unhappy when a product is hot and they have to pay above what they want to pay to get a certain card. It works both ways.

I'm happy for you that you make money on every product you sell. It seems like you have the system down to a science since you are bringing in physics to the post. From what I'm seeing here there are more unhappy people with this product than happy...but we can't all be as profitable as you and love the products Dr. Price puts out. The two breaks of products by Dr. Price they both have been busts in my opinion. Thus most of the time people who do case breaks gamble on that aspect they get the one hit that will be worth a ton of money. I am in the situation to where I do not need to sell my cards but I do to obtain other cards for my pc...I do not sell cards to pay my bills or fund my emergency fund. My family's worth is much more important than gambling on cards...thus I do this as a hobby. Never have I sold a card stating how I need the money.

Selling dirt cheap (ebay market) is not anyone's goal. It's what the market is driving at that point in time. Again it's a gamble...do I hold onto the Tyson auto or wait until another Sportsking product comes out with a Tyson auto in it thus lowering my value on the card I'm holding. While you may be able to sell "everything" for a profit...other sell to add more to the pc (myself included). Yes I do know there are other means of selling cards other than ebay...but ebay is one of the major factors on what drives the market, some may disagree but it's reality.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Wheeler you miss the point in all of this because you see things one way. The point to this product is simple. The single cards look nice to thats fine and dandy. For the single cards to be out and available to buyers, somebody HAS TO open it for it to be available. Is it wrong for people who like to open boxes to expect some value in return? Is that such a terrible thing in your eyes and the eyes of Dr Price? The cases, boxes, AND singles have all DROPPED LIKE A ROCK! The product holds LITTLE value. You are hearing disgruntled people who opened the product and expected VALUE. NEVER did any of us state we wanted to make money. We all know what we are getting when we open things. On the average boxes your looking at around $60-70 in cards. Thats PATHETIC. This product is the ultimate joke with VERY LITTLE fan base supporting it. You say its made alot of people happy? What the 5 people who are buying the ever decreasing in value singles? You guys buying these singles must be happy considering they drop like a rock daily and you TOO are losing money. Face it, this product was a stinker so move on.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Wheeler you miss the point in all of this because you see things one way. The point to this product is simple. The single cards look nice to thats fine and dandy. For the single cards to be out and available to buyers, somebody HAS TO open it for it to be available. Is it wrong for people who like to open boxes to expect some value in return? Is that such a terrible thing in your eyes and the eyes of Dr Price? The cases, boxes, AND singles have all DROPPED LIKE A ROCK! The product holds LITTLE value. You are hearing disgruntled people who opened the product and expected VALUE. NEVER did any of us state we wanted to make money. We all know what we are getting when we open things. On the average boxes your looking at around $60-70 in cards. Thats PATHETIC. This product is the ultimate joke with VERY LITTLE fan base supporting it. You say its made alot of people happy? What the 5 people who are buying the ever decreasing in value singles? You guys buying these singles must be happy considering they drop like a rock daily and you TOO are losing money. Face it, this product was a stinker so move on.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I understand the seller's remorse part of all this. However, I have heard some sellers say they are pleased with the product. What I haven't heard is a single "collector" complain about the product. And when I say "collector", I mean a person who needs not sell any cards, but buys to add to their PC.

This product is far from "pathetic". If the prices are so low right now, better buy while the buying's good, because prices are going to climb back up. Time will either prove or disprove what I'm saying. Until then, we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For the single cards to be out and available to buyers, somebody HAS TO open it for it to be available. Is it wrong for people who like to open boxes to expect some value in return? Is that such a terrible thing in your eyes?
I meant to respond to this earlier, but forgot...

Of course I don't think it's terrible to expect some value in return for opening boxes. I just think that people should open boxes for the love of opening them and not for the prospect of making money.

Let me assure you of one thing...If all the rip and flippers went away, there would still be a ton of collectors. If singles weren't available, yet demand for them was there, product would unquestionably get opened. Sellers need buyers a WHOLE LOT MORE than buyers need sellers. To put it simply, collectors/buyers will always be able to open their own boxes if they so choose, and again, if the demand is there, there will always be someone willing to bust open product to sell singles.

I believe one problem in this hobby is there are too many people "expecting" to make a buck from ripping and flipping. If there were less box/case busters, there would be less singles available, and those singles would climb in price, because again, the collectors aren't going anywhere. For every one that leaves, there are more that enter the hobby.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wheeler...have you ever been disappointed on a Dr. Price product, as a "collector"? Can we assume you buy Dr. Price's products as a collector? I would hope any person who buys this product as a "collector" should be very happy with the product and hope everything sells low...but the market is the market and when prices drop this fast it usually shows the product as being pretty weak. The quality of the cards are nice...but there just isn't the "public" interest in this product...thus making it a dud for the everyday card collector and not the "pc collector".

BTW on a side note...since you know Dr. Price pretty well...what type of Dr is he, MD, PhD, EdD, etc...?
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Wheeler...have you ever been disappointed on a Dr. Price product, as a "collector"? Can we assume you buy Dr. Price's products as a collector? I would hope any person who buys this product as a "collector" should be very happy with the product and hope everything sells low...but the market is the market and when prices drop this fast it usually shows the product as being pretty weak. The quality of the cards are nice...but there just isn't the "public" interest in this product...thus making it a dud for the everyday card collector and not the "pc collector".
Your definition of "everyday card collector" must be very different than mine.

A collector is defined as: A person or thing which collects.

"Collects" is defined as:

1. To gather together; amass items.

2. To get; particularly, get from someone.

3. To accumulate similar items or items belonging to a particular theme, particularly for a hobby or recreation.

Not one time did any of this mention the habit of selling, or to make money, or to break even. Therefore I continue to stand by this statement...Nearly all, IF NOT ALL, collectors of Ringside Boxing are very happy with the product.

For the record, I don't buy all of Dr. Prices products. In fact, I only collect one of the dozen or so he produces. I don't have the time or capital to be a "serious collector" of more than one of his fantastic "collectible" products.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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BTW on a side note...since you know Dr. Price pretty well...what type of Dr is he, MD, PhD, EdD, etc...?
I have never said I know him pretty well. Why the assumption and why the question?
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes the literal definition of a collector is a person or thing which collects. So everyone who buys and sells is considered a collector in the general sense...especially in the sportscard hobby. If I "collect" a certain card to sell it in the immediate future he is still a collector. That is why I differentiated between everyday collector (rip/flippers, etc) from the pc collector.

Again you eluded the question: Have you ever been disappointed on a Dr. Price product, as a "collector"? Can we assume you buy Dr. Price's products as a collector?

I'll further that question in asking...as a "pc collector". Have you ever been disappointed in a Dr. Price product that you have purchased?

Does anyone know what kind of credentials that make the Dr in Dr. Price? Just wondering since I'm into academia.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:41 PM   #22 (permalink)
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When going back in forth with Wheeler on this topic you will learn he picks apart the small meaningless things and is now referring to a dictionary to pick a point that has little value in this topic. We all know what we mean by stating collector on a sports card forum dont we? And now I see Wheeler likes to state these could go up in the future so he cant be disproven about this being a great or not so great product. Fact is where it stands right now in the market, its a huge DUD. Yes there are like 5 people collection this stuff as a whole. Otherwise Im sure some of the buyers see a boxer they like and buy it since ITS ALL DIRT CHEAP. Thanks Dr price for the $200 price tag and my 2 $15 autos and event worn $5 card if that. Atleast you made the cards thick so the fire will last longer this winter LOL. And there is no buyer or sellers remorse here, just stating the FACTS. Other than Ali or Tyson, this stuff STINKS. Even a cut in this junk brings LITTLE in todays auctions. Can Sportkings possibly be THIS BAD? Hold on to whomever bought that stuff. $100 for a Steve Carlton auto isnt looking good.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yes the literal definition of a collector is a person or thing which collects. So everyone who buys and sells is considered a collector in the general sense...especially in the sportscard hobby. If I "collect" a certain card to sell it in the immediate future he is still a collector. That is why I differentiated between everyday collector (rip/flippers, etc) from the pc collector.
So I gave you the definition of "collector", yet you make up your own? Again, not in any of those definitions I listed does it state a "collector" collects to sell in the immediate future. Therefore, you're making up your own definition of collector. It's not something that's widely accepted, or it would be an actual definition. I have already said it, but it looks like I need to say it again, your definition of "collector", (be it "everyday" or "PC" collector", is very different from mine and what the rest of the world "widely" accepts.

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Originally Posted by John91C View Post
Again you eluded the question: Have you ever been disappointed on a Dr. Price product, as a "collector"? Can we assume you buy Dr. Price's products as a collector?

I'll further that question in asking...as a "pc collector". Have you ever been disappointed in a Dr. Price product that you have purchased?
I think I'll take the sideline on this one and rather enjoy not answering your question. I will say though that I very much enjoy collecting every different Sportkings card I am lucky enough to find.

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Originally Posted by John91C View Post
Does anyone know what kind of credentials that make the Dr in Dr. Price? Just wondering since I'm into academia.
I'll pass on this one as well.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7 View Post
And there is no buyer or sellers remorse here, just stating the FACTS. Other than Ali or Tyson, this stuff STINKS. Even a cut in this junk brings LITTLE in todays auctions. Can Sportkings possibly be THIS BAD? Hold on to whomever bought that stuff. $100 for a Steve Carlton auto isnt looking good.
I think there's a LOT of buyer's remorse with you. I could be wrong, but that's exactly what it looks like from all of your posts. Also, "just stating the facts".

Some cuts have went cheaper than I thought they would, but have you seen even half of them sell at auction? How about 25% of them? How about 10% of them? Of course you haven't, and therefore, since it's already been stated many times before in this forum, eBay is NOT the biggest and/or best place to sell all cards. There are other avenues out there. I have probably seen more sales of these cut autos than anyone else, and I can assure you, they can and do sell very, very well.

And to respond to your Sportkings comment...Did you know that empty boxes are being bought and sold for $15 each? Did you know that every single empty box in this product is worth that much to at least one buyer, and he will buy every single one offered to him? Can you name any other product out there where rip and flippers can sell every empty box for $15 each? Did you know that there's a very good chance of making money on SK if you know how to sell it correctly? You probably don't, but if you did, you'd be happy you're buying this outstanding product.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I see so I can't have an "opinion" on what a collector has intentions for. Again yes the literal sense of a collector is the actual definition you copied and pasted but you forget the added value of why a collector collects certain cards. The intention of this also would go into the definition of a collector.

Here is another definition of what a collector is:
1. somebody who collects objects: somebody who accumulates objects for their interest, value, or beauty
Again...for their interest...some people collect cards for the sole interest of selling. You are thinking of a collector who solely keeps onto their items but you do not have to hold onto items to be a collector...they can buy and sell their collection but yet still be a collector but I guess I'm just not as smart as MrWheeler27.

So the few questions I actually ask you avoid...why is this? Doesn't matter to me...you answer of taking the sideline pretty much answers the question.

If you know the answer to which degree Dr. Price hold to make him a Doctor then why not say so? Does he hold a Doctorate degree (academic) or a professional degree (Doctor of Medicine)? I would hope Dr. Price using his title as a DR is related to his profession of cards or somewhat related to this hobby otherwise he is not representing himself too well. This is coming from someone who regards academia in a very high standard.
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