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Old 10-22-2012, 05:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default NEED INFO on 82-83 WRESTLING ALLSTARS

After seeing Andre go for close to 3 grand the other day, I'm toying with the idea of making a run for the set. I'm watching a few right now on ebay so will see how I go.

After also getting some info from other helpful posters on this forum I sort of know what I'm looking for. I only want the best and from what I hear and from I have read PSA graded 9 or 10 is the best. I initially thought that beckett graded cards were the way to go but I was wrong.

The thing is I have noticed the jump between cards graded 9 and 10 price wise is massive. So is 8 or 8.5 decent too??

I'm really just after advice on which cards are most desirable from the 3 sets, I understand the first 5-6 cards from each set are harder to get in great condition because of the way they were wrapped (hence the Andre price).

Any other info guys?? different colors?? price-ranges for any individuals?? Any info whatsoever is appreciated.

I'm thinking if I don't go for the whole set I'll just go for the guys I really like, but I remember saying that about the WCW Topps Autos, I promised myself all those years ago, that I'll only get the members of the nWo (I suppose that was half the bloody roster anyways.......)

Anyways guys please speak up.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:34 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If you go to PSA message board. The All Star sets from 1982 and 1983 get talked about quite a bit of there. Set has become really popular now. Some amazing sets on the set registry put together. If you just search wrestling you will find quite a few threads on these cards.

I'd post link to them but not sure if you allowed to do that.

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Old 10-22-2012, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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PSA 8 is the most common grade. Many cards don't have a PSA 10 grade. You can check the pop reports at PSA.

Hulk, Flair and Andre are the most sought after cards. Beckett pricing reflects this. All 3 are in 1982 Series A, making it the pricier of the 3 series.
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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i am amazed at the difference in price between the PSA 9 and PSA 10, maybe because there is no PSA 9.5??
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Look at any set of cards where there are set collectors.

Prices are always higher for a Gem Mint grade.

Look at the the 86 Fleer basketball. A Dominque Wilkens PSA 10 sells for over 20 times what a PSA 9 does.

These cards are scarce and the higher you go in grade the more rare they are.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Bootan check out the Ric Flair BGS 9 on EBAY.

This should help clear up any questions you have on who is the superior grader.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271119358887?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D271119358887%26_rdc%3D1



This card is a PSA 9 OC at best or a PSA 7 if you ask for no qualifiers.







Here is a PSA 9 OC I cracked out and got signed. There is ZERO chance this card would achieve a grade of PSA 9 Mint.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Dpeck--how many sets of each of the series of these three sets do you believe were produced?
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Many cards only have a POP of 1 for PSA 9, and many have no PSA 10's, while PSA 8 is the most common grade.

In general, a PSA 8 might value at $20-$30, a PSA 9 $100-$200, and a PSA 10 $500-$1000.

Some cards grade much better than others. For example Terry Funk has 4 PSA 10's, while Fabulous Moolah does not have any PSA 9 or 10's (well, 1 PSA 9Q). So value is determined by that also, as well as popularity of the wrestler.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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No one knows how many sets were produced. Production figures were never released. Estimates usually range from 1000-5000, but it's anybodys guess. The first set seems more scarce, but that may be just due to the fact is is more popular (w/Flair/Hogan/Andre)
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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There are basically 3 ways to collect the sets. 1) buy minty sealed sets 2) buy graded singles 3) buy lots/singles (usually lesser conditions). #3 is the less costly option.

As for the Topps WCW autos, I can only wish you luck.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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In the article that ran in the SMR featuring my collection I was quoted as saying I had contacted Norman Keitzer who made the cards and asked him if he knew how many were produced and he said he did not but just that they did not make very many.

I believe it is less then 2000 sets but I have seen people throw around numbers in the 100 range and those are far too low. I have 32 Bruiser Brody cards and there is no way I have that high of percentage of the cards produced.

There are numerous reasons why this set is so tough to put together in high grade. First these cards were produced and sold mail order only and came in a very tight cellophane wrap that is very tough on corners. Also making matters worse is that many would have had a great deal of stress to the cards in transit and lets face it in 1982 when a set was $5 no one was thinking these would ever be extremely valuable. What is wild is that price included the shipping too.

The cards feature photos from the Wrestling magazines that Norman Keitzer produced and include The Ring Wrestling Magazine, The Wrestling News, The Wrestling Review and programs with the title Major League Wrestling. There are many of the wrestlers featured whose photos were taken much earlier then when the cards were produced. The Billy Robinson card I have matched up to a photo from 1973.

The multi color design in my opinion looks great but there are certain colors that show corner wear more easily. For example the purple cards with the slightest touched corner it will show wear as the light blue card is somewhat more forgiving.

There are many cards in the set where centering is a major problem. I have yet to see a Ray Stevens card or Greg Gagne that is not off centered from side to side less then 75/25. You can not get a true mint card with those centering dimensions and hence the reason both have a PSA 8 NM-MT as their top grade. These two cards in a mint or higher grade would command a very strong price as they would be extremely rare. Admittedly neither have a huge fan following like a Ric Flair but someone who is trying to achieve the nicest set they can would need these two cards.

There are a great number of printing issues with these cards and many have common defects on most of the cards produced. The Hulk Hogan card has a printing issue with a large circle or dot to the right of his head on many of the cards. BGS gives these strong grades and PSA does not. The Ricky Steamboat card has a great deal of black smudge that runs along the bottom of the card. I have only handled one of these with no smudge and I have a few that has very little. The Fabulous Moolah has a strange rainbow like printing streak that runs across a number of the cards. I own the PSA 9 PD that was mentioned earlier in the thread and it has that printing flaw. Because it has a qualifier it is really the equivalent grade of a PSA 7 NM. I have purchased a large number of her cards in hopes of finding a true mint copy but it has proven to be elusive at this time. The Tony Garea is another card that has a printing issue and there are a number of others.

Another card that is virtually impossible in a high grade is The Crusher. The 82A were wrapped with some having the Destroyer on the back and others with The Crusher. This card is extremely difficult to find without corner wear and many are off centered in every direction. The card has lots of surface issues and is purple so the color has made it even more difficult. This card in many ways is the perfect storm and once again I have purchased a large number of these and a Mint grade has not been achieved. There is one in the pop report but it was there before these cards were getting graded frequently and is sitting in someone's personal collection.

As I said before there are certain cards impacted by the packaging. The Andre The Giant, The Destroyer/The Chrusher, Rick Martel, Dutch Mantell, Superstar Graham, and Matt Borne all have issues with corners from how these cards were distributed. There seems to be much less of the 82B sets floating around and especially sealed and the Ric Martel card is by far one of the toughest cards in the set. There is only one PSA 8 and one PSA 9. There are very few high grade examples of the card in BGS slabs too and this card is a set collectors nightmare with so few in strong condition. What makes this card even more difficult is the yellow cards from the first two sets have centering issues in many cases so lining one up with awesome corners and good enough centering is virtually impossible. I paid $400 on EBAY nearly two years ago for the only PSA 9 Ric Martel. That was before prices for anyone other then Andre, Hogan and Flair were achieving $100+ prices.

There are several reasons these cards sell for so much more in some cases in a PSA slab. First PSA is the leader in third party grading. They have 85% market share and this means the overwhelming majority of collectors want their cards with a PSA grade on them. PSA has proven to be the most accurate grader of these cards and in many cases much more difficult then BGS or SGC. And finally PSA was ingenious to start the Registry years ago and that has naturally helped the value of these cards as the number of people buying them has increased.

Here is an example of exactly why a PSA grade commands such a premium. In the auctions that ended last night I won one of the cards. The Harley Race PSA 9 Pop 2. I have listed three examples of this card for you to see. The first is the BGS 9. Take a look at the centering on this card. There is virtually no lower border. Take a look at the PSA 7 and then take a look at the PSA 9. I am extremely excited to add this card to my collection as it is almost a a 10. The printing issue in the right border keeps it from one. I have sent in a great deal of this card and most come back a PSA 7. With BGS grading standards it is easy to see how many end up in high grade slabs judging from the example I posted. This is not a scenario of one grade point but instead two. That is huge.

1982 Wrestling All Stars Series "A" Harley Race BGS 9 Raw Review Tough Card | eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Wrestli...p2047675.l2557

1982 Wrestling All Stars Series A Harley Race 8 PSA 9 Mint PWCC | eBay


There is a great misconception that buying sealed sets guarantees mint cards. I have opened a number of sealed sets and sometimes many have dinged corners or easily touched corners. I recently opened an 82B set and might have only gotten two or three mint cards. There is no magic formula other then buying a lot of raw material if possible or buying cards that have already been graded and trying to put the puzzle together. I have been working on my collection since August of 2009 and I am still at it. Someone starting now needs a lot of new material to surface if they really want to be able to complete a graded set.

Last edited by dpeck100; 12-10-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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very informative insight and much appreciated on my end. congrats on seeing an opportunity with this set and running with it before the masses got into it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the info dpeck, i appreciate it. i think i read some of your posts at the PSA forums too not long ago.

I see what you are saying about the PSA grading compared to BGS. I believe the main difference is centering, do you agree?? I see they are quite harsh on the bottom to top centering but more lenient from left to right, especially for these All-star cards.

I was watching the auctions yesterday also, I was looking at the harley race before those last second bids blew my budget over. I want to go for a graded set but I'm still undecided whether to just go for PSA (I prefer) or a mixture of both.
So what I have done is buy the cheapest 2 cards I could find in both grades to compare. I have bought "Super Destroyer" in both PSA 9 and BGS 9.5. I have the BGS im still waiting for the PSA version to arrive.
What I'll do is post the scans up here when I have both and hopefully some of the forum members can help me decide.

here's the only other 2 cards I have so far:


upload foto

See the left to right centering on the Koloff?? I dont think that would make a BGS 9, I don't know it's doing my head in trying to figure out each companies grading system.

BTW the sthoemke I'm lucky enough to of completed my WCW Topps Auto set, thats why I'm toying with this set now...........started a bit too late I think.......unless dpeck want to throw a few my way (I mean he has 32 Bruiser Brodys .......lol......)
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I think there is a very good chance the Koloff could cross over to a BGS 9. I cracked out a BGS 9.5 Jerry Blackburn that had similar centering and sent it into PSA raw and it came back a PSA 9.

Building a set at this point is going to be tough in high grade. I had the luxury of buying a lot of strong raw cards over the last three years and sending them in myself. I just went to PSA's site and added up the number I have sent in raw and it is 372 cards from all three sets.

If I was starting out at current prices there is no way I could have put together the collection I have. I have a little more then 750 graded cards from the sets and a total of close to 2,500 cards.

I am still buying though and have no plans of stopping. I continue to believe this is one of the greatest trading cards sets ever.

The term NM-MT is the most over used term in the hobby and collectors do not realize in many cases how nice of a card a PSA 8 is. There is great value in that area. There is a Dick Murdoch PSA 8 listed on EBAY that is a great card. The Tony Atlas at $15 is a steal.

The days of finding high end raw cards listed on EBAY for the most part are over. There are a few listed now that look good and the prices reflect that. The Tully Blanchard is over $20 and will finish higher from here I believe. Three years ago that might have been $2 in many cases.

I personally only have five cards left in BGS slabs but they are too risky to mess with and they are staying there.

I chose PSA as I felt they were the best and so I have moved almost all of my graded cards to them.

Good luck with your collection and just try and buy the cards you like the most. If you like the card in the holder is really what matters most.

Last edited by dpeck100; 12-11-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I started buying Wrestling All Stars card in 1999 and stopped buying in 2005 when I thought prices were getting a little high. My best buy was 13 sealed 1983 sets for $5 each.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Rob England and I speak often and I believe he told me about that purchase.

Do you guys know each other?
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpeck100 View Post
Rob England and I speak often and I believe he told me about that purchase.

Do you guys know each other?
Yes, we are friends. I have known Rob for about 10 years. We are co-conspirators for the Vintage Wrestling Card Archive website

Vintage Wrestling Card Archive (X-Titles.com)
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Very cool!

That is a great site and I have used it many times.

When the 1983 sealed sets reached $1,000 on EBAY you must have been losing your mind!!

I have had tuff luck opening those but in recent months a bunch were busted and submitted and plenty of great cards turned up.

It is hit or miss.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The $1000 price was nuts. The 1983 set settled down pretty quick. But seemes to be drying up again after quite a few sets broken down for grading. If you pull a couple PSA 9 or 10's it can easily pay for the set.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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BTW, Rob just sold a auto'd Bruider Brody for $1500!
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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He text me when he got the offer and I said SELL!!!

I helped him get that card from Alan Barcoff and was shocked when he listed it.

Was a good investment by Rob for sure!!
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpeck100 View Post
He text me when he got the offer and I said SELL!!!

I helped him get that card from Alan Barcoff and was shocked when he listed it.

Was a good investment by Rob for sure!!
I was surprised it sold not DNA slabbled. There's another auto'd one listed Beckett slabbed and the asking price is even higher.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #23 (permalink)
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That is from Mike Navarro and he too purchased the auto from Alan Barcoff.

Alan has been responsible for a lot of the rare wrestling auto's that have made their way into the market.

The Andre The Giant that was listed came from him originally too.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/200872350698?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D200872350698%26_rdc%3D1


This is the most brutal looking Hulk Hogan you will ever find in a NM grade. The problem with BGS is the math of the four sub grades tends to lead to a higher grade. This card would be a PSA 6 at best and perhaps lower.

On one hand I am blown away this is in a 7.5 holder. On the other hand in some ways I am not because unless the card is creased or has a wrinkle this is about as low of a grade as you will find with BGS.

This is just another example of why PSA sells for so much more then BGS with the Wrestling All Stars.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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BTW, Rob just sold a auto'd Bruider Brody for $1500!
The time to by a Brody autograph is when you see one, honestly, compared to the other one on ebay, an older publicity shot which the gentleman would not budge from 2100, i felt like i got a deal. the fact that it wasn't slabbed wasn't a big deal considering rob's reputation. funny side bar - when i first saw the pic of the beckett slabbed 82 wrestling all star auto brody on the collectors universe forum, i think. i offered $2500. i was told it wasn't for sell. like 2 months later, it's on ebay...i got it for less than half what i originally offered. i paid less for the beckett slabbed brody than the raw auto....but, i treasure them both.
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