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Old 02-04-2013, 07:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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WWE is a bigger company, and has more weekly shows and more viewers.

To me, WWE plotlines seem more predictable and generally revolve around pay-per-view hype.

Both WWE and TNA have there own fair share of popular veterans/hall-of-famers, new talent & Divas.

Leaf Originals is a great set to collect. Although some wrestlers have become scarce/pricey to buy online, the box prices have remanded stable and cards are easy to resale.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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WWE is far more popular, it would be like comparing the NFL to Arena football.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:56 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Not true. There have only been three releases the last 2 years.

2012 TNA TENacious - 75 cases
2012 TNA Reflexxions - 100 cases

2011 TNA Signature Impact - 90 cases

2010 had 3 releases, 2009 had 2, and 2008 had 2.

10 releases in 6 years isn't too much, and isn't even close to a "hysterical rate" at all. Topps generally does 3 releases per year and they produce much higher quantity of each release. For example: Triple H autos were one per 1,500 boxes in the 2012 Topps WWE release. TENacious had 1,800 boxes made total.

There are also a lot more things in a TNA box to sell. The last release had 3 autos, 1 swatch (or cut auto), 1 short print high number card, and 2 parallels per box. WWE has 3 things per box (1 auto or mat, 1 shirt, 1 parallel). Not to mention the TNA cards are far superior to the Topps cards. All the hits are numbered, different level parallels, multi-autos, multi-swatches, kisses, and auto swatches. Topps pales in comparison on quality when compared to what Tristar puts out for TNA.

However, the TNA releases are much more expensive at launch (too expensive) and they have a smaller audience that buys their cards, so they generally stick around on Ebay longer than WWE cards do. Topps WWE products also sell out on occasion, where as TNA products don't usually do that, so right now people are busting 2009, 2010, 2011 at discounts, where as the WWE stuff from those years is harder to find.

So given the information, it's not surprising there's a lot more TNA stuff on Ebay than there is WWE stuff. But it isn't because TNA stuff is overproduced.
Your numbers are probably right, and my first statement may have been skewed--however, TNA has the same wrestlers sign for every product you listed above. WWE (or Topps) at least has the good sense to vary the mid-carders in their issues. Despite TNA's "limited" production, I have never seen much value in their cards, either on Ebay resale or otherwise (personally, 10 card releases in five years seems "hysterical" to me). Maybe it is cool to have an AJ Styles auto for every occasion (or card issue) but I think they have overkilled every guy in their company with autos to the point where their autos value is diminished. My point is why would one spend a goodly sum on a TENacious Jeff Hardy autograph when he had one in the previous set, and you know for a fact he will have one in the next set? I don't know the answer to this, but feel free to enlighten me.

Maybe I am "old school" (or just a WWE loyalist) but WWE is the premier wrestling organization with the oldest and most established card company. TNA is with a card company that made their bones on multi-sport cut-auto gimmickry and is a wrestling organization in a perpetual downward spiral. As demonstrated by their print run, TNA caters to a very small market of the wrestling card community with a very small selection of wrestlers. I don't see that as value.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Your numbers are probably right, and my first statement may have been skewed--however, TNA has the same wrestlers sign for every product you listed above. WWE (or Topps) at least has the good sense to vary the mid-carders in their issues. Despite TNA's "limited" production, I have never seen much value in their cards, either on Ebay resale or otherwise (personally, 10 card releases in five years seems "hysterical" to me). Maybe it is cool to have an AJ Styles auto for every occasion (or card issue) but I think they have overkilled every guy in their company with autos to the point where their autos value is diminished. My point is why would one spend a goodly sum on a TENacious Jeff Hardy autograph when he had one in the previous set, and you know for a fact he will have one in the next set? I don't know the answer to this, but feel free to enlighten me.

Maybe I am "old school" (or just a WWE loyalist) but WWE is the premier wrestling organization with the oldest and most established card company. TNA is with a card company that made their bones on multi-sport cut-auto gimmickry and is a wrestling organization in a perpetual downward spiral. As demonstrated by their print run, TNA caters to a very small market of the wrestling card community with a very small selection of wrestlers. I don't see that as value.
So if an average of 2 releases per year is "hysterical" to you, what is 3 (what Topps does for WWE on average), or tons of releases like in the major sports? Just curious.

Contracts change all the time, you never know who is going to be around or for how long, but I'll answer your Hardy question with a question: Why do people shell out for autographs of the same person multiple times every year (WWE, football, baseball, basketball, etc), knowing there will be more for years to come? How many different RG3 autos are out there, all in 1 year and for many more years to come? Yet people pay good money for those. Wrestling isn't any different. The reasons don't change just because TNA is stamped on the cards, it's the same thing.

I'm not a fan of Tristar's other products at all, so I agree with you there, but I won't let that blind me to the fact that their TNA cards are way, way above the cards Topps churns out. Oh, and TNA is still growing... They have been around for 11 years now, hence the last release celebrating 10 years with TENacious. They didn't even have a television contract back then. 10 years ago they could barely fill an arena, now they draw around a million viewers every week. An announcement was just made that they are going to start touring the country. Those are improvements and growth, not "a wrestling organization in a perpetual downward spiral" as you put it.

I don't disagree that WWE is older or that Topps is more established, but the simple truth is opening a box that maybe has 1 auto, a shirt, and 1 parallel, and nothing being numbered or special or anything, pales in comparison to opening a box with guaranteed autographs, memorabilia, parallels, and all of it being serially numbered. The closest Topps has come to releasing something WWE wise that's close to what Tristar produces for TNA was the 2010 WWE Platinum set, and everyone sung their praises for that release, including me. But unfortunately that didn't continue. I can't pat Topps on the back for producing such a sub-par product. Look at what they do for UFC. The wrestling product is terrible compared to that. Topps could improve and make their wrestling product awesome, they just choose to settle for mediocrity. It's a shame really.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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MasteroftheDark,

I think TNA box guarantees are better than WWE, but frankly, in terms of popularity (which is what the original poster was asking about), I do not think the hits you are getting in TNA are very worthwhile. TNA can make these guarantees because they overproduce their autographs--there are way too many parallels for each wrestler. That is what hurts the TNA product in my estimation. I think if you compare certain stars whom have signed for both products (i.e. Foley, Hardy, Hogan) its pretty easy to tell which company's cards are more popular. For example, you can get a Mick Foley autograph from TNA on Ebay for about $8. Good luck finding a Mick Foley from 2012 Topps WWE for that amount. To the bigger issue, TNA's print run has to be much lower than a Topps print run for the simple fact that if Tri-Star tried for TNA to match Topps WWE print runs, they would have alot of unsold boxes sitting on the shelves and would be out of business. Personally, that tells me which organization's cards are more popular.

Topps could do better, no doubt--they have the best wrestling organization in the world in the palm of their hands. I think it is a little obtuse to believe that TNA is breaking new ground and/or creating high art with their product by sticking cut autos of "celebrity athletes", triple relics and autographed mat relics (which Topps did way before they did) in packs though.

Let's be honest, it's all subjective. You can say I am a goof and I can say you are a goof but, in the end, if you like TNA better than WWE, that's your right and collect what you desire. Some people like the Yankees, some people like the Kansas City Royals. Objectively though, if you are collecting the big boys and you are of in any way cognizant of resale prices, it appears to me that you would be silly to buy a Rob Van Dam parallel autograph from Tenacious when you can get his WWF off the mat autograph.

That being said, I would like to have a Sting face paint chips card--you got one for trade?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:24 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I wouldn't waste your time comparing wrestling cards to the major sports in terms of demand and pricing--two totally different worlds and markets there.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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MasteroftheDark,

I think TNA box guarantees are better than WWE, but frankly, in terms of popularity (which is what the original poster was asking about), I do not think the hits you are getting in TNA are very worthwhile. TNA can make these guarantees because they overproduce their autographs--there are way too many parallels for each wrestler. That is what hurts the TNA product in my estimation. I think if you compare certain stars whom have signed for both products (i.e. Foley, Hardy, Hogan) its pretty easy to tell which company's cards are more popular. For example, you can get a Mick Foley autograph from TNA on Ebay for about $8. Good luck finding a Mick Foley from 2012 Topps WWE for that amount. To the bigger issue, TNA's print run has to be much lower than a Topps print run for the simple fact that if Tri-Star tried for TNA to match Topps WWE print runs, they would have alot of unsold boxes sitting on the shelves and would be out of business. Personally, that tells me which organization's cards are more popular.

Topps could do better, no doubt--they have the best wrestling organization in the world in the palm of their hands. I think it is a little obtuse to believe that TNA is breaking new ground and/or creating high art with their product by sticking cut autos of "celebrity athletes", triple relics and autographed mat relics (which Topps did way before they did) in packs though.

Let's be honest, it's all subjective. You can say I am a goof and I can say you are a goof but, in the end, if you like TNA better than WWE, that's your right and collect what you desire. Some people like the Yankees, some people like the Kansas City Royals. Objectively though, if you are collecting the big boys and you are of in any way cognizant of resale prices, it appears to me that you would be silly to buy a Rob Van Dam parallel autograph from Tenacious when you can get his WWF off the mat autograph.

That being said, I would like to have a Sting face paint chips card--you got one for trade?
The original question seemed pretty open to me, with a variety of answers based on how it was read.

No such thing as too many parallels. Then again, I collect rainbows so the more parallels the better in my opinion (as long as they aren't impossible to find). The vast majority of the rainbows I have are WWE though since I'm an Undertaker fan.

I haven't said that Tristar is doing anything revolutionary, but if you take the hair cards and Sting Face Paint cards, then yes, they have done things that haven't been done before. Regardless, let's just say Tristar isn't doing anything new. Does that mean it's ok for Topps to put out lackluster product after lackluster product? I don't think so and it's even worse when they are churning out cool stuff for UFC. So I'm not going to sit here and say Topps is doing great. Sure, they do some cool things, like finally including kiss cards (at crazy odds of course), but that doesn't mean they've brought their product up to the level it should be at or are anywhere close to the level it should be at.

It isn't a matter of liking one card company or wrestling product more, it's simply looking at the products made. My favorite wrestler of all time is The Undertaker. Now, would I rather have a non numbered Undertaker autograph, or have multiple parallel levels of Undertaker autographs to collect? I'll take the latter please, it isn't even remotely close to something I'd have to think about. Doesn't make me a Tristar or TNA fanboy (or a WWE or Topps hater) to point out that Tristar's got the right idea and their cards are far more interesting. Would you really rather have a non numbered auto over a serially numbered auto? Just curious.

I had a couple of the Sting face paints for sale, but they sold awhile back.

Major sports are irrelevant, look at Benchwarmers. People pay solid money for autographs of those girls several times each year, and in parallel levels. Collectors collect. Sport is irrelevant. You asked me why, and we both know the mentality of collecting is a bit difficult to describe, so I simply posed the question back to you. Collectors are collectors, the sport doesn't change anything.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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On the whole, I agree with you that Topps has a lackluster product--I wouldn't buy a box of Topps wrestling cards, and haven't for years (I did buy a box of Leaf Wrestling though--that product is awesome). Being an autograph collector, I think Topps wrestling has produced some strong autograph lists in both of its 2012 products. One can look at the Hall of Fame autos, the Mick Foley variation autos and the legends in the Heritage product and see as much. Topps is hit and miss from year to year, but personally, if someone has a TNA auto and a WWE auto of the same dude, my money is going to the WWE auto.

When you get into major sports, there are tiers of products for your different purchasing power--i.e. high end products, mid level products and lower end (set builder) products. Despite the fact that WWE tries to sell certain products as higher or lower tier, I really don't believe the distinction exists in this niche we have spent so much time discussing tonight. Personally, I do not collect modern cards of the major sports, but I do of wrestling. That being said, I don't believe that by collecting wrestling I am in the same category of collector that inhabits the major market sports--lets be honest, we are a little different breed of animal.

I think this is why the major sports can get away with multiple autographs of the same guy each year--larger market with vaster demands and, collectively, a much much larger purchasing power. I would imagine that wrestling comprises a very small percentage of the overall collecting market. As such, the major sports have a much larger market of collectors to which to cater.

The largest prices on single cards is found in major sports--a Jordan Precious Metals Gem out of 10 sold for over $10k--how is that irrelevant? I don't collect the new shiny stuff in the major sports, but there are apparently a lot of people who are fanatical about them still. We can go to the National Convention this year in Baltimore (or wherever it may be) and you and I will walk the aisles and count how many tables of the hundreds have cards from the major sports, then we can talk of relevancy.

I have no explanation for Benchwarmers autographs, and I am not even going to try on that one--its a very strong niche market though.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:22 AM   #34 (permalink)
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On the whole, I agree with you that Topps has a lackluster product--I wouldn't buy a box of Topps wrestling cards, and haven't for years (I did buy a box of Leaf Wrestling though--that product is awesome). Being an autograph collector, I think Topps wrestling has produced some strong autograph lists in both of its 2012 products. One can look at the Hall of Fame autos, the Mick Foley variation autos and the legends in the Heritage product and see as much. Topps is hit and miss from year to year, but personally, if someone has a TNA auto and a WWE auto of the same dude, my money is going to the WWE auto.

When you get into major sports, there are tiers of products for your different purchasing power--i.e. high end products, mid level products and lower end (set builder) products. Despite the fact that WWE tries to sell certain products as higher or lower tier, I really don't believe the distinction exists in this niche we have spent so much time discussing tonight. Personally, I do not collect modern cards of the major sports, but I do of wrestling. That being said, I don't believe that by collecting wrestling I am in the same category of collector that inhabits the major market sports--lets be honest, we are a little different breed of animal.

I think this is why the major sports can get away with multiple autographs of the same guy each year--larger market with vaster demands and, collectively, a much much larger purchasing power. I would imagine that wrestling comprises a very small percentage of the overall collecting market. As such, the major sports have a much larger market of collectors to which to cater.

The largest prices on single cards is found in major sports--a Jordan Precious Metals Gem out of 10 sold for over $10k--how is that irrelevant? I don't collect the new shiny stuff in the major sports, but there are apparently a lot of people who are fanatical about them still. We can go to the National Convention this year in Baltimore (or wherever it may be) and you and I will walk the aisles and count how many tables of the hundreds have cards from the major sports, then we can talk of relevancy.

I have no explanation for Benchwarmers autographs, and I am not even going to try on that one--its a very strong niche market though.
Agreed about the Leaf release. I thought it was pretty cool.

I also agree that Topps did better with their autograph list in 2012. The list was larger as well, which I enjoyed.

Releases are about more than just an auto though. It's about everything in the release. A strong autograph checklist is certainly a good start, but an entire release shouldn't hinge on that one thing.

In your example of the same person having a WWE auto and a TNA auto, I'd likely buy the TNA auto over the WWE auto simply due to the serial numbering. That's a big thing in my book, since there's no questioning the print run, it's right there on the card. How many Cena autos are out there for the new Heritage release? 100? 500? 1,000? We'll never know, especially since they were retail only. All things equal, give me a serial numbered card over a non serial numbered card every single time.

Let me try to clear up a misunderstanding. I'm not trying to say that wrestling is as big of a market as the major sports. Let me try explaining a different way. My son has a John Cena collection. He is 14 cards away from a master set of everything made for Cena except 1/1's and printing plates (4 are parallels from the new Heritage, and 4 more are old Superfractors). We're talking promotional cards, magazine exclusive cards, rainbow parallels, etc. How is he any different from someone who collects RG3? How are both of those guys different from someone who collects Benchwarmer model Sara Underwood? The answer is that all three collectors are the same. That's what I was trying to get across earlier. Not that wrestling is as big as the major sports, simply that the collectors at their core are exactly the same. If Topps were to have a release every single month, my son would try to get every single Cena made. No different than an RG3 collector has to go get how many total cards this year? Sara Underwood collector has to go get how many this year? The collectors are all the same. Yes, no doubt, the major sports are bigger markets with a ton more collectors. Those collectors are no different than us wrestling collectors though. So....

To get back to the point, 2 releases per year is nothing out of Tristar. Topps generally does 3 releases, and the major sports do far more than that. So no, Tristar does not overproduce cards. That was what I was trying to say.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:16 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The collectors are all the same. Yes, no doubt, the major sports are bigger markets with a ton more collectors. Those collectors are no different than us wrestling collectors though.
Great post and discussion... I left it intentionally open to get some thoughts like this. If I would have just asked yes or no - I would have got most generally yes or no.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:41 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Great post and discussion... I left it intentionally open to get some thoughts like this. If I would have just asked yes or no - I would have got most generally yes or no.
You are a true puppet master with your phraseology . . . are you happy that your post has made bitter collecting rivals out of me and Masterofthedark (just kidding of course)?

Jokes aside, I think the overarching point so far for you is collect what you like, whether it be WWE or TNA, because opinions always differ. Heck, collect them both. Make sure it is a hobby rather than an investment for you though. I have seen people get in trouble (and debt) busting too much wax and chasing that white whale. Chances are, you aren't going to pull it. Just be sensible about the wrestling products you buy--if you only collect a certain couple of guys there is absolutely no reason to go out and buy a case of either WWE or TNA product.

For my money right now, the cards to buy for the fun of wrestling collecting would be the Leaf Wrestling--it has a little bit of something for everyone. If you are a set builder, it is a fairly easy set to complete, if you are a rainbow person or into parallels, it provides you with several options. Plus, by and large, the autographs in it are of collectable individuals. I have heard a few people complaining about the issue that Leaf doesn't "certify" the autographs on the back of the card. However, with the amount of pictures out there of the wrestlers signing, and the fact that several of these cards are showing up on Ebay as legit in Beckett holders, I don't really think this is a problem except to the most paranoid of collectors.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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never cared much for wwe. i always loved wcw (and sting). even back in the day wwf has crap matches. and as bad as they were, the quality of the matches today, made the old matches look like gold. tna may not have the mcmahons bank, but they got damn good talent. aj styles has more wrestling skill in his finger then what shamus would ever dream about. i try to watch wwe every once and a while and the matches are just laughable. billion dollar production for a bunch of people who cant wrestle worth a crap. now, im not knocking everyone in wwe. they do have some great talent. but sadly, they take a back seat to the others.

people dis tna bc it has "ex wwe guys" okay, so what company doesnt have a wrestler thats been in another company before?? where was cm punk before wwe? tna and roh. undertaker, hhh, kane, big show, jericho, edge, and the list goes on, were all in wcw and other places before wwf. and the guys tna pick up, its not bc they were a "wwe guy" its bc they prolly have something to offer in the ring. bc in tna, its wrestling. and vince will tell you, he dont give a rats ass about wrestling, its entertainment to him. and if you cant sell tshirts or some kind of gimmick, you will loose your job.

as for cards, i think the tna cards (2010 to present) hold way more value then the wwe cards. topps are the kings of overproduction. both products have their good and bad. and what makes me mad about the tna product, is paying 70+ bucks for a box and get a mike tenay auto! no one wants to pull announcer autos! or even people from the production crew!

i dont think aj is over produced at all when compared to other wrestlers. in the short times jeff hardy has been with tna, look how many cards have him on them. even other wrestlers cards, like lets say jeff jarrett, will have him fighting hardy lol. hes their number 1 merch seller. so i guess its only natural they shove him out there. he even gets his own "art" cards as hits in the boxes, so dont tell me aj is over produced. i mean, look at football. how many andrew luck and rg3 autos and such were released this past season? (and still getting released)

im really diging tna's roster at the moment. and after speaking with christian york (a new tna "rookie") i found out that hes in the new tna product coming out. so im expecting his auto as well as a lot of other new people i like in the company. and ill be chasing the stings of course lol. its such a good mix right now. you got legends sting and hogan, big stars like hardy, up and commers like bobby roode, austin aries and james storm, and cool new people like christian york, kenny king, etc. oh, and last but not least, the whole f'n show RVD.

im actually collecting more wrestling then anything else right now. was into football pretty bad, but have gravitated towards wrestling. i just think they put more into their products then traditional sports.

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Shinnox,

Could you point to what leads you to believe that the TNA cards hold their value more than WWE issues. You are the second person who has stated this, and I really am curious as to what I am missing with this product. I mean, is there a subset of TNA that consistently goes up in value or remains fairly stable in the secondary market, like the 2005 WWE Heritage autographs, the Superstar Jumbo Swatches or even the 2012 Hall of Fame autos? What autograph/relic/subset that a person had a legit shot of pulling (no 1/1's or cut autos) has held, or increased in value, from the original TNA releases? Like I said, I am just curious because maybe I am looking at the wrong completed listings (which wouldn't surprise me). Every mainstream TNA autograph I see (outside of the super, super rare stuff) seems to be obtained with little more than a $10 bill on Ebay.

The thing that really bugs me about TNA (and maybe this is more of an issue with TriStar) is that they try to get cute with these quad autos, and subsequently kill the value of them in the process. For instance, they will have a Hulk Hogan, Sting, Angle and then throw in some value-killer like Ken Kennedy (Anderson, whatever) or some other kryptonite wrestler. I think in their efforts to be unique, they end up hurting their collectors in the long run.

Also, this analogy with the print runs on AJ Styles (or any other TNA signer) with regard to Andrew Luck and RG3 autos seems misplaced, as, by virtue of the pricing I have seen, Luck and RG3 autos, no matter the proliferation of same, typically run well over $100 a piece (and both guys are two of the most popular rookie qbs in years).

Obviously, tastes will differ on card collecting and wrestler/match quality. But to imply that WWE has always had crap matches is ludicrous. If it weren't for those "crap matches" from the 80s and 90s, there wouldn't be a TNA (or probably a WWE) today. Further, just to point to some objective data, since its formation, TNA has not had one match win "Match of the Year" from the Wrestling Observer, despite the fact that WWE has had five, ROH has had three, Pro Wrestling NOAH has had two, and the Japanese promotions have had one each in the same time frame. So if WWE has crap matches, what does TNA have?

Personally, i think that TNA for match quality has gotten much worse since Hogan/Bischoff came to power. Given the complete erosion of the X Division over the years and the failed Aces and Eights angle, I can only think its going to get worse before it gets better with those two steering the ship. Maybe those guys you mentioned above can save it or take it to new heights (although I would think that Roode and Storm would be the only two up and comers you mentioned who would even have a chance to make it to the mid-card with WWE). But with the "new" guys that WWE has coming up--Ziggler, Cesaro, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, etc., coupled with their established names and the variety of legends that come back here and there, I think WWE will always be the more popular promotion between the two, notwithstanding creative's complete lack of creativity. WWE, like it or not, is where the big boys play.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:15 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I have to constantly remind myself not to bust TNA product...why? A great example is that the last box I opened, I pulled a Samoa Joe auto #/10 YEAY!!!! which would probably (NOT prolly for those of you who can't spell) sell in the $10-$15 range....BOOOO! Hell, the triple auto of AJ/Samoa Joe/Chris Daniels 01/10 only sold for $50. Yes, you get more "hits" in a TNA product, but you had better hope that you pull an auto of an ex-WWE/WCW wrestler or you will take it in the shorts.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:47 AM   #40 (permalink)
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are you happy that your post has made bitter collecting rivals out of me and Masterofthedark (just kidding of course)?


We're all good in my book.

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I have to constantly remind myself not to bust TNA product...why? A great example is that the last box I opened, I pulled a Samoa Joe auto #/10 YEAY!!!! which would probably (NOT prolly for those of you who can't spell) sell in the $10-$15 range....BOOOO! Hell, the triple auto of AJ/Samoa Joe/Chris Daniels 01/10 only sold for $50. Yes, you get more "hits" in a TNA product, but you had better hope that you pull an auto of an ex-WWE/WCW wrestler or you will take it in the shorts.
Hey, I'm the one who sold that card!

You're going to take it in the shorts on almost every product out there. Even Benchwarmer isn't profitable anymore without a really big hit. About the only way to not take it in the shorts anymore is to get in on the "1 off" products. Something like the first Big Bang Theory release or the first Walking Dead release as examples.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:22 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I'm split on both, and by "both" I mean which is superior in cards and as a wrestling company; TNA or WWE.

As a company, the WWE writing and booking far exceeds TNA. But TNA wrestlers do have faster-paced, more exciting matches (and I’m not just talking about spotfests either). That’s not a knock on all WWE wrestlers, it’s just the WWE “style”.. which is generally slower, less dangerous but with a better story.

I like to root for TNA in some ways because they are the underdog and I have a ton of their wrestlers at local indy shows.. although I have seen a bunch of WWE guys at indy shows too (like Bryan Danielson at ROH).

Card-wise, TNA products do give you more bang for your buck and it’s nice to actually get auto relics, numbered hits and high-end cards.. but most TNA cards (excluding some Knockouts and ex-WWE/WCW stars) do not hold their value.

Sure it’s nice to get a 1/1 auto in a TNA product, but it sucks when it only sells for $20-something (or less). You can get a crappy WWE auto and it can sell for close to that sometimes.

If Topps were to start making hobby only WWE products, it would kill TNA’s cards.

There has been one Austin auto made, one Rock wrestling auto made, no Vince autos, one HHH auto, a couple Taker autos…

A product like WWE Triple Threads or WWE Five Star filled with lots of legends and a ton of current stars would be huge..
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:46 AM   #42 (permalink)
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A product like WWE Triple Threads or WWE Five Star filled with lots of legends and a ton of current stars would be huge..
When I started this thread I couldn't put my finger on why I thought WWE was just more solid - but I think NAH's comment is right on point (not that what we have all discussed isn't valid). But I think as probably most on here (there will always be diehards and exceptions) would go ape @#$% for a product like that - that covered all the eras. Since WWE owns everything in history they would have the best avenue to do that.

Great posts and discussion - this was shy I joined the boards!
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Shinnox,

Could you point to what leads you to believe that the TNA cards hold their value more than WWE issues. You are the second person who has stated this, and I really am curious as to what I am missing with this product. I mean, is there a subset of TNA that consistently goes up in value or remains fairly stable in the secondary market, like the 2005 WWE Heritage autographs, the Superstar Jumbo Swatches or even the 2012 Hall of Fame autos? What autograph/relic/subset that a person had a legit shot of pulling (no 1/1's or cut autos) has held, or increased in value, from the original TNA releases? Like I said, I am just curious because maybe I am looking at the wrong completed listings (which wouldn't surprise me). Every mainstream TNA autograph I see (outside of the super, super rare stuff) seems to be obtained with little more than a $10 bill on Ebay.
just look at book values and resell values. i pulled a mike tenay and taz dual auto. thats right, a dual announcer card auto. and sold it on ebay for 70.00 shipped. guys like sting, flair, hogan, hardy, etc, are certified legends and their stuff will always be worth something and will only increase in value. ever tried to buy a full set of tna's first cards? not cheap by far. The original releases (2008-2010) werent that limited and there were so many more retail boxes then hobby that it killed the overall value of the cards. some have retained value, but most didnt.

and to their credit, if tna did a hall of fame set, it would only have 1 auto. they dont have the rich history the wwe has. but even with all those wrestling legends and such, wwe makes too many common relics and autos and not enough serial numbered stuff. velvet sky cards sell better then most wwe stars cards.

yes, and thats the problem MAINSTREAM. tna is a smaller company and what they put out is very limited. while the wwe is in their pg era and are with topps. doesnt take a genius to figure out theyre not gonna put out expensive cards right now bc they want all the little kiddies to buy em.

some do end as little as 10.00. but they arent big stars either. odb, eric young, etc are all bottom of the barrel autos. wwe is just the same. their relic cards, even matt cards from ppvs of stars like randy orton go for 3.00 at best.

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The thing that really bugs me about TNA (and maybe this is more of an issue with TriStar) is that they try to get cute with these quad autos, and subsequently kill the value of them in the process. For instance, they will have a Hulk Hogan, Sting, Angle and then throw in some value-killer like Ken Kennedy (Anderson, whatever) or some other kryptonite wrestler. I think in their efforts to be unique, they end up hurting their collectors in the long run.
i like anderson so i dont mind with things like that. but i do see your point and ive often wonder that myself. at least they didnt put jeremy borash lol.

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Also, this analogy with the print runs on AJ Styles (or any other TNA signer) with regard to Andrew Luck and RG3 autos seems misplaced, as, by virtue of the pricing I have seen, Luck and RG3 autos, no matter the proliferation of same, typically run well over $100 a piece (and both guys are two of the most popular rookie qbs in years).
yea and thats just it. rookie qbs. just like cam and every popular qb that came before him, the value will die down. they are popular now, but their value depends on popularity in football. if rg2 comes back from his injury and has the same kinda season, he may retain that value. if hes horrible and bombs, good luck getting 100.00. look at kapernick. just a few weeks ago, you couldnt get 20.00 out of an auto of his. then he gets thru the playoffs and they go thru the roof. i know wrestling cards value dont depend on how well they do in the ring every week. was using luck, etc, as an examples of being over produced. bc they are.

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Obviously, tastes will differ on card collecting and wrestler/match quality. But to imply that WWE has always had crap matches is ludicrous. If it weren't for those "crap matches" from the 80s and 90s, there wouldn't be a TNA (or probably a WWE) today. Further, just to point to some objective data, since its formation, TNA has not had one match win "Match of the Year" from the Wrestling Observer, despite the fact that WWE has had five, ROH has had three, Pro Wrestling NOAH has had two, and the Japanese promotions have had one each in the same time frame. So if WWE has crap matches, what does TNA have?
never said all their matches were crap. they had people that could go. and never got pushed other then a few guys. 80s wwe was really bad. and its just as bad today. if it wasnt for the nwa, there would be no tna. has nothing to do with wwe. it wasnt wwe's matches that saved them. you know just how close wwe was to going under when wcw was beating their asses? really really close. what saved them was shock and raunch tv. not wrestling matches. they starting cursing on tv, using beer, flipping the bid, using derogatory comments and prancing around naked women on tv to get ratings. wwe attitude era = jerry springer in a wrestling ring. and thats what saved them. vince even said they had no choice but to take it down into the gutter or they wouldnt survive.

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Personally, i think that TNA for match quality has gotten much worse since Hogan/Bischoff came to power. Given the complete erosion of the X Division over the years and the failed Aces and Eights angle, I can only think its going to get worse before it gets better with those two steering the ship. Maybe those guys you mentioned above can save it or take it to new heights (although I would think that Roode and Storm would be the only two up and comers you mentioned who would even have a chance to make it to the mid-card with WWE). But with the "new" guys that WWE has coming up--Ziggler, Cesaro, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, etc., coupled with their established names and the variety of legends that come back here and there, I think WWE will always be the more popular promotion between the two, notwithstanding creative's complete lack of creativity. WWE, like it or not, is where the big boys play.
wcw was were the bog boys play. where wrestling mattered. to use that tagline with the wwe is a joke. but i kinda agree to an extent bc wwe is where people play. they prance around the ring botching moves left and right, and call out spots right on camera. and dont care at that. if something happens they chalk it up to "well its entertainment". and thats where the line is for me. i love wrestling. and vince doesnt care about wrestling.

with that being said, wwe will always be more popular just for the fact that its wwe and everyone knows it. the era of the monday night wars are long gone. wcw and wwf both had a rich storied history and both were very well known.

i kinda agree and disagree with hogan/bischoff. at least easy e has been off tv. hogan however hasnt. and i loved the xdiv. sad to see it die slowly like it has. but lat least theyre gonna have an all xdiv ppv in the coming months. im starting to enjoy the aces angle again. when taz joined i freaked out lol. i was like choke some bitches out lol.

i dont think roode or storm would make it in wwe bc they were wrestlers first and entertainers second. they dont over sell and exaggerate enough like ziggy does to be accepted in the wwe universes pg era.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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never said all their matches were crap. they had people that could go. and never got pushed other then a few guys. 80s wwe was really bad. and its just as bad today. if it wasnt for the nwa, there would be no tna. has nothing to do with wwe. it wasnt wwe's matches that saved them. you know just how close wwe was to going under when wcw was beating their asses? really really close. what saved them was shock and raunch tv. not wrestling matches. they starting cursing on tv, using beer, flipping the bid, using derogatory comments and prancing around naked women on tv to get ratings. wwe attitude era = jerry springer in a wrestling ring. and thats what saved them. vince even said they had no choice but to take it down into the gutter or they wouldnt survive.
I'd have to disagree with that stance - WCW was never a really big threat in the scheme of things. Turner was dumping so much money into it as his hobby, which was evident when it all sold business wise WCW didn't make sense to keep. During the time of the big jump they were paying a lot of people a lot of money to do nothing...

What saved WWE was Vince Jr.'s buy in to being on TV all the time and taking it to the entertainment route and not sports. It freed them from testing and kayfav - so they could put the guys into the main stream. Their run with Hogan and Rocky is what really changed wrestling as we know it today.

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i kinda agree and disagree with hogan/bischoff. at least easy e has been off tv. hogan however hasnt. and i loved the xdiv. sad to see it die slowly like it has. but lat least theyre gonna have an all xdiv ppv in the coming months. im starting to enjoy the aces angle again. when taz joined i freaked out lol. i was like choke some bitches out lol.
Too bad he'll never take another bump, so once again a TNA storyline will not have a blowoff.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Shinnox,

I don't know about the value stuff you are talking--the last time I checked, you could get a serial-numbered out of 100 Austin Aries autograph for less than the price of a large pizza--there's one Ebay completed listing for $2.99 on that card. I guess, on the bright side, it can only increase in value at this point though.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Shinnox,

I don't know about the value stuff you are talking--the last time I checked, you could get a serial-numbered out of 100 Austin Aries autograph for less than the price of a large pizza--there's one Ebay completed listing for $2.99 on that card. I guess, on the bright side, it can only increase in value at this point though.
Just wait for someone crazy enough who has $300 to try to buy them all up...
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:51 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Just wait for someone crazy enough who has $300 to try to buy them all up...
I don't think it's possible to corner the market on Pizza!
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:48 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I don't think it's possible to corner the market on Pizza!
Ha. Cornering the market on pizza sounds awesome . . .

Who's a low end wrestler (autograph wise) in the TNA sets? In an effort to prove my ramblings wrong, I may try to corner the market in Crimson autos or something to artificially inflate the value.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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In fairness to A.J. Styles, I would like to own his 2004 Pacific TNA autographs--these are really the only TNA insert cards I have an interest in--well, and paint chips from Sting's face.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:49 PM   #50 (permalink)
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just look at book values and resell values. i pulled a mike tenay and taz dual auto. thats right, a dual announcer card auto. and sold it on ebay for 70.00 shipped. guys like sting, flair, hogan, hardy, etc, are certified legends and their stuff will always be worth something and will only increase in value. ever tried to buy a full set of tna's first cards? not cheap by far. The original releases (2008-2010) werent that limited and there were so many more retail boxes then hobby that it killed the overall value of the cards. some have retained value, but most didnt.

and to their credit, if tna did a hall of fame set, it would only have 1 auto. they dont have the rich history the wwe has. but even with all those wrestling legends and such, wwe makes too many common relics and autos and not enough serial numbered stuff. velvet sky cards sell better then most wwe stars cards.

some do end as little as 10.00. but they arent big stars either. odb, eric young, etc are all bottom of the barrel autos. wwe is just the same. their relic cards, even matt cards from ppvs of stars like randy orton go for 3.00 at best.
I really don't know what universe you are looking to for values. You mention $70 on the dual announcer auto ( you forgot to mention that it is numbered to 5 and, looking at eBay looks like it actually sold for $50) but I see a Mick Foley / Jeff Jarrett that went for $15 and a triple of the Hardys and RVD numbered to 25 for $38.


You mean all of THESE super high-end Velvet Sky cards that typically sell for $4-$10? tna auto -benchwarmer -americana sky in Cards | eBay

You talk about the "low end" TNA autos ending "as little as $10" but you could actually pick up almost any of the TNA wrestlers non-numbered (and many low numbered) for well under $10. The vast majority of the wrestlers who sell for more were legends in WCW or WWE well before they went to Disneyworld.

WWE values are down with saturation as well but to try to make an argument for TNA on a value basis is reason to have you on a "Just Say No" ad.
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