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Old 04-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Maybe Mr. Gray will still come through, maybe he won't, but the larger issue remains, how big of a problem is this and what steps will Leaf take to insure this doesn't happen again in the future?
First thing Leaf needs to do is dump American Icons as a signing agent.

Whether or not Scott Hall actually "sold" the cards to American Icons is irrelevant. American Icon should not take ownership of any 3rd party card they are overseeing the signing of. Currently, American Icons has multiple Hall cards as well as several dozen other Leaf Wrestling cards for sale. Did those wrestlers also "sell" their cards to American Icons?
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:16 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Current bid is $178.38.

You have to be happy with how strong this is so far.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:26 PM   #153 (permalink)
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the Black 1/1 went for a little over $300. So I dont see the red in 1/1 going for anything less than $300. It might break $400.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:25 AM   #154 (permalink)
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It's still a lonnnnnng way from what I paid for it, but even if for some reason it approaches that amount (and it's still a much longer shot than one might think), it doesn't end the bitter taste in my (and a lot of other people's) mouths about how carelessly this matter was handled, nor does it relieve my concerns over the other ink variation cards I have and their true print run numbers, nor whether if somewhere out there, there's a pile of other so called SP's lying around waiting to be sold when the time is right. I will give Leaf some credit for at least not completely ignoring this issue, but they haven't done or offered to do nearly enough to make me confident in buying Leaf's products in the future.

The fact that they allowed American Icons to keep and continue to sell other Halls that also must have been "unauthorized" doesn't give me a lot of confidence this won't happen again either.

Anyway, if anyone has a blue ink white background Hall they want to sell me, I am in the market for one to re-complete my white background set.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:56 AM   #155 (permalink)
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Bullingham, I think AMerican Icons has a blue ink base available LOL. Sorry I couldnt help it. This situation is not funny.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:14 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Lol, yes I noticed. Oh the bitter irony.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Hall didnt sell anything. He was shown this topic on twitter and gave his thoughts about it. Check his twitter for more info
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:08 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Hall didnt sell anything. He was shown this topic on twitter and gave his thoughts about it. Check his twitter for more info
Someone try to share the twitter thoughts, I would love to see what what said about this.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #159 (permalink)
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"I have only done a small amount of autograph shows in my whole career, sucks to think some dealer is doing something crooked"

" When they stack stuff in front of me to sign I didn't suspect that people were getting swerved. Drama follows me..."
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #160 (permalink)
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To the op. I think its time to stop putting trust into this mr grey sleezeball and start thinking about taking some form of legal action. Not just for you, but every person who bought the product. If its haappened with hall, theres no doubt the entire set has been compromised

Last edited by spookytwinkie; 04-12-2013 at 08:01 PM. Reason: typing from my phone. so corrected some typos
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #161 (permalink)
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I wish stuff would stop happening to Hall. He is putting an effort forward to change the direction of his life. cards are just cards when you compare them to someones life. If American Icons deceived Hall that is very wrong. If he was paid to do a signing then he signs whats in front of him. I don't blame him, he is just trying to support himself and he does have children and a crap load of medical bills.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:09 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Ting trustTo the op. I think its time to stop putting trust into this mr grey sleezeball and start thinking about taking some form of legal action. Not just for you, but every person who bought the product. If its haappened with hall, theres no doubt the entire set has been compromised
I agree, the set has been compromised, including the stated print runs for all other ink color varients.

I suspect American Icons has been backdooring cards from their signings. It is public knowledge that lot of other cards from the set have come up massively short from the boxes. And American Icons has been listing quite a few of the cards from the set.

Hall is innocent in the whole matter. It was really lame for Americon Icons and/or Brian Gray to put blame on him, for something that can't really even be proven or not.

I also believe Leaf truely thought the Hall red ink was 1/1 otherwise they wouldn't have tweeted the production #'s for the various ink cards.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:58 PM   #163 (permalink)
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I for one still love the product. It's truely unfortunate this had to happen. F*CK American Icons. I have purchased a few items from them in the past, but never will again.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:33 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Don't be so quick to lay all of this on American Icons, they couldn't have held back all of those cards without Leaf knowing.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:59 PM   #165 (permalink)
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i dont think leaf cares. as long as they got what they needed for their so called print run, they could care less. they were even too lazy to make actual packs for the cards. couldnt afford to re-print the boxes either to reflect the change in hits.

this product was doomed from the start. the moment shawn michales couldnt sign, the product when into panic mode. makes me wonder what it woulda been like if he did sign. im sure we'd be seeing more red ink hbk cards too.

most seem to think that serial numbering them woulda been the answer. and it prolly woulda helped a lot. but if this company is as crooked as they look, it wouldnt be too hard for them to stamp the other cards too.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #166 (permalink)
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its unfortunate things turned out like this, I appreciate someone trying to give wrestling fans a good on card auto set. You dont see UD or topps making a auto set this large and with so many stars. At least not since 1999 (thanks WCW).
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:20 AM   #167 (permalink)
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Don't be so quick to lay all of this on American Icons, they couldn't have held back all of those cards without Leaf knowing.
They held back the Scott Hall cards, and Leaf didn't notice until they got caught. And I think a lot more than just 30 red ink cards were missing.

Leaf has never stated any cards were short printed. I know that whether or not other cards were backdoored is only speculation.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:48 AM   #168 (permalink)
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This is a farce. Gray not being able to straight up answer questions in the forum without a wild phone goose chase is ridiculous. Just open up about where the breakdown is. In regards to the op, what's done is done and I hope you can recoup your investment, but to have something you put so much stake in spit in your face sucks.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:51 AM   #169 (permalink)
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Missing any number of cards from one of the top signers should not have gone unnoticed. Who the hell packed this set out?
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:59 AM   #170 (permalink)
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This is a farce. Gray not being able to straight up answer questions in the forum without a wild phone goose chase is ridiculous. Just open up about where the breakdown is. In regards to the op, what's done is done and I hope you can recoup your investment, but to have something you put so much stake in spit in your face sucks.
Better be careful.... blowout doesn't like insults of BG... They already "warned" me. Nothing like a fair and impartial forum! wink wink
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:01 AM   #171 (permalink)
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I don't put all of the blame on American Icons. It never would have happened if Leaf had properly accounted for and took control of their product. American Icons did however keep cards for themselves that their clients had signed. The reason being to sell themselves on Ebay and make profit off of them beyond what they were making for the signing. They are corrupt, it is an illegal act and the company as a whole should be fined severely or shut down by the Federal government, but that won't happen.



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Don't be so quick to lay all of this on American Icons, they couldn't have held back all of those cards without Leaf knowing.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Better be careful.... blowout doesn't like insults of BG... They already "warned" me. Nothing like a fair and impartial forum! wink wink
Asking someone to be straightforward is not an insult. The insult lies in the secrecy.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #173 (permalink)
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A question I pose is the Tatanka Alternate art cards.

I personally have not seen any of the alternate art cards#A-TAT in color varitations. I.e., no blues/10 no yellows/25 and now American Icons has a red/5 psa slabbed for sale. Does anyone own any of the red, yellow, or blues A-TAT or did American Icons keep them all to sell off down the road? I may have missed them, but I own 349 leaf originals and haven't seen any of the varitations for sale.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:22 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Not sure about Tatanka alts, but there's definitely other cards I suspect that have gone "missing". Too little unopened product left. In retrospect, the Halls should have been obvious. It's not an SP'ed card in the yellow set (numbering starts at 50 on those cards intended to be SP'ed I think), yet almost no Hall base backgrounds were ever pulled in any of the breaks I saw. Why Leaf allowed this to happen is beyond me. Compromises their entire line of products.

For the record, Leaf never offered to do anything specific for me or offered any more of an explanation/"solution" than already posted (i.e. supposedly recovering all of the "missing" Halls from American Icon). Mr. Gray did explain he was under the weather the day he was supposed to call me and thereafter I never was able to catch up with him by phone (that's partly my fault as I don't have a lot of time to be discussing wrestling card purchases during business hours). If anything ever more is said/explained/offered I'll let everybody know.

The card ends tonight and absent some serious bidding, I'm still losing a significant chunk of change here.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:18 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Funny reading all this hate. You think Leaf wanted this happen or would announce something knowing their were more out than stated. Not that stupid.

Overall it's a sweet product for old school wrestling fans.

Some cards are sp no doubt. You must live in a fantasy world if you think everyone was supposed to sign the same amount of cards. It's that way in any sport. Cheaper guys always have more, bigger more expensive signers less.
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