Group Break Approvals on Hold

[Axe]

Originally Posted by mgugs46

Why would people participate in a break where they have to pay even MORE for a slot, so that someones yearly salary can be paid??

wow, obsessive much, you really think someone would be able to live off what im suggesting, well i guess they could if they ran like 10 breaks a day non stop

Originally Posted by mgugs46

Seriously? If you need to factor in ink toner cost when hosting a break, you probably should not be hosting a break at all.

Costs are costs, and yes they will add up, especcially if you want the only good few breakers to run the breaks

Originally Posted by mgugs46

The incentive is that you like to, and get to, rip a lot of product - and if its too time consuming for someone to do, again, they shouldnt be doing it.

i already agreed with you on this once, not getting your point of overly repeating this /shrug

Originally Posted by mgugs46

If someone is thorough, I highly doubt anyone is losing their own money to run a break - how hard is it to calculate postage cost, etc? Also, they dont get anything from BO, but why should they? Generally the break participants benefit, as many times BO will give a better price on the case than normal. Its supposed to be for fun, so I highly doubt BO will start to compensate people for doing a break - thats just silly.

Not even gonna comment on this, dude your just overly obsessing on one tiny point of my suggestions, and its already been stated the breakers can PROFIT from breaks already, its just capped, which since ive not done a break, i didnt know yet, but thats all i was suggesting anyways.

also just to note, when i join a group break if its one of the few i truly trust and im assuming are trusted by all around here, i will pay them as a gift, just because i feel they deserve a little something for running great breaks. mind you thats a very select few who ill do that for currently.

also another NOTE, atleast one of those breakers has already stated he will NOT be breaking nearly as much this year, due to the new PAYPAL changes, i would assume that will be the norm for most of them through this year, and the rest will probably figure out why in a year, lol.

[MrSnyder]

As a member for several years, doing a group break isn't easy! I've done mainly hockey, a few football, and two BGS submissions. Between all of the paperwork and calculating everything, it takes time. Is there padding, sure (mostly shippping). I can estimate shipping, but if I'm shipping from PA to MD, that's a whole lot cheaper than PA to WA. Some slots you gain (literally cents) and some you lose (cents to dollars). Generally speaking, those of us who ran/run group break don't make squat. I rip for the fun of it and truly enjoy seeing what cards come out. I've had several FANTASTIC cards pass through my hands in breaks...

My point is, for those that think we MAKE MONEY on group breaks, if it's done right, not really...and for those that think we should get some sort of stipend, personally, I appreciate, but I rip for fun!

As far as changes...it's not a requirement, but I always videotape my randomizing just in case any questions arise. If Pat/Chris know it's for a group break on BOC, then usually they give some sort of discount. If you look back at one of my break, the slot prices changed/dropped around $1.50 and I passed that onto the participants because that's the RIGHT THING TO DO! I do agree that certain people should be somehow certified/approved for doing breaks.

Finally, I just got a webcam for Xmas. Some people didn't join my breaks because it wasn't live. I couldn't. But all of my breaks were videotaped and placed on YouTube. Not sure if a stipulation could be added to ensure that there is some sort of video proof (live or recorded), to be added to the break.

Just my thoughts...

[Macken]

Originally Posted by grm94

So, your definition of FREE SHIPPING was asking everyone(including me) to send an additional $5 if they want there base! If your going to tell a story please tell the whole story!!!

Yes, if you read the first post you would see that i clearly said that if you wanted your base cards it would cost you shipping for a flat rate box. You got alot of inserts and refracots and i actually had to send 2 bubble mailers to you, so i lost on shipping to you since you were not willing to help and get your base, you were the only one with a problem with as some of the guys even paid more for others to get there base.

[golferphil]

I know one issue that I have seen recently is that the host doesn't want to send the $200 to lock the case/price in before everyone has paid. I certainly see the host's side in this. Right now the deposit on a pre-ordered case is not refundable, so if all of the sudden a bunch of people drop, they are on the hook for the non-refundable $200.

Maybe we should look at making an exception when the order is for a verified group break. In addition, you would make the first $200 (spread across all slots) an immediate payment to participate. Basically $200/number of slots.

[mgugs46]

I'm very adament about a breaker not profiting off breaks. There are plenty of people willing to do this for free and if we implement a few stricter guidelines and regulations, there shouldn't be too many problems with the breaks. My 2 cents.

Agreed 200% - Id rather find 4-5 people who would commit to doing breaks without profit on a continuous basis. Id be more than happy to invest the few $$ it would cost for a webcam to do this - because I like ripping product, and cant always afford thousands of dollars every other week to open my own cases.

[BAMBAM]

ORIGINALLY it was never about the host making a profit and the slot prices where as close to actual costs as possible. People hosted just because they wanted the thrill of ripping what was usually a high end case that they wouldn't buy on their own. While I never had an issue with the host making a couple bucks for their time I've noticed some breakers tried gouging with their slot prices on more than one occasion lately.

[bigdaddyblue73]

I've been in four breaks so far.

1 went great.
2 were cluskerf***s.
1 was cancelled and the money refunded.

The only way the breks are going to work properly is with a forum approved person overseeing them and EVERY BREAK BEING DONE BY THE SAME FORMULA.

[Macken]

maybe have a break team that will attend breaks and make sure they go smooth and document any mishappenings if they occur..

I watch alot of breaks and i am on the computer most of the day

[Boo]

Originally Posted by bigdaddyblue73

I've been in four breaks so far.

1 went great.
2 were cluskerf***s.
1 was cancelled and the money refunded.

The only way the breks are going to work properly is with a forum approved person overseeing them and EVERY BREAK BEING DONE BY THE SAME FORMULA.

I'm not sure how many breaks I've been in but I'd guess at least 25 or more and I have never had a problem. It's all about looking at the breaker and deciding if you trust them or not.

[bigdaddyblue73]

Originally Posted by mgugs46

Agreed 200% - Id rather find 4-5 people who would commit to doing breaks without profit on a continuous basis. Id be more than happy to invest the few $$ it would cost for a webcam to do this - because I like ripping product, and cant always afford thousands of dollars every other week to open my own cases.

Why are you guys so adamant about not slipping the host a few bucks to say thank you? What is wrong with each participant throwing in $1 dollar in appreciation? I don't think anyone is suggesting a salary for hosts, but are you so cheap and unthankful you won't give the dude a buck to say "Thanks!"?

[bigdaddyblue73]

Originally Posted by Boo

I'm not sure how many breaks I've been in but I'd guess at least 25 or more and I have never had a problem. It's all about looking at the breaker and deciding if you trust them or not.

Yep, I need to be choosier about how I break with.

[NaterBater]

Originally Posted by Macken

Yes, if you read the first post you would see that i clearly said that if you wanted your base cards it would cost you shipping for a flat rate box. You got alot of inserts and refracots and i actually had to send 2 bubble mailers to you, so i lost on shipping to you since you were not willing to help and get your base, you were the only one with a problem with as some of the guys even paid more for others to get there base.

So how can it be Free Shipping if you want people to pay to get their base shipped? I would highly suggest not offering free shipping on a group break unless you want problems or to have to pay out of pocket.

[iluvfish2]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

Rob, you remember what the rules were when breaks first started on here and things went smoothly. Somewhere along the way BO decided it was more important to move cases and let things get out of hand opening up all kinds of holes for the slime that looks for easy money on boards like this. People with no board cred at all running breaks ? Breakers taking slots ? Names not even in the break ending up with the best hits ? Really ???? It really isn't all on BO though because when will people wise up and not send just anybody their money around here ? Why does it take getting ripped off for people to wise up ?

Bam. I do remember and very much remembering watching our first group break go up in flames (of sorts). Breaker lost his butt. I think he (Joel) still lost $$ even after we all pitched in some bucks. But it also opened our world to all sorts of interesting ideas.

To blame blowout on this isn't entirely fair. My actions are by far to blame and probably why my tone keeps going back and forth on my posts as I very much feel responsible and keep tossing around a few penalties of my own. I'm almost exclusively (99.999%) the one that does anything with the group breaks. Why because at the time I was the one who had done the most, and had a spreadsheet done up so that I could very easily check the math on a break and do my best to make sure a host wasn't over calculating..or under calculating. I'm the first to back a host when things are on the up and up. Hosts are responsible for keeping things organized (obtaining supplies, keeping track of payments, trades etc), busting the case in a timely manner, shipping sooner than later, and ultimately are responsible for getting the package to the slot holder.

Pat @ blowout checks everyone out prior to allowing their membership. Most newer people know, its a few days (or weeks) before your membership is approved. I try and get to the break postings within 48 hours, and most will get some type of pm from me asking questions. I check other forum ids, youtube/ustream etc, ebay, etc, but we all know if someone honestly wanted to any fraud info here would be hard to catch....why because in all honestly most of us are people behind a computer screen. If you really want to screw someone over, its not that hard to do. But ultimately to this point, its been me that's done any "moderating" within the group breaks. I've based any and/or all of my actions based on the rules that we currently have. I'm as much to blame as the individuals who have screwed up recently, but also why I opted to post this here as apparently the rules aren't strict enough and need changes to be made.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by NaterBater

So how can it be Free Shipping if you want people to pay to get their base shipped? I would highly suggest not offering free shipping on a group break unless you want problems or to have to pay out of pocket.

i clearly stated that no base would be shipped. I twas chrome so i included all refractors, all gridiron lineage and all bowman chrome cards and all hits will be shipped free of charge.

[gergs1134]

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

Bam. I do remember and very much remembering watching our first group break go up in flames (of sorts). Breaker lost his butt. I think he (Joel) still lost $$ even after we all pitched in some bucks. But it also opened our world to all sorts of interesting ideas.

To blame blowout on this isn't entirely fair. My actions are by far to blame and probably why my tone keeps going back and forth on my posts as I very much feel responsible and keep tossing around a few penalties of my own. I'm almost exclusively (99.999%) the one that does anything with the group breaks. Why because at the time I was the one who had done the most, and had a spreadsheet done up so that I could very easily check the math on a break and do my best to make sure a host wasn't over calculating..or under calculating. I'm the first to back a host when things are on the up and up. Hosts are responsible for keeping things organized (obtaining supplies, keeping track of payments, trades etc), busting the case in a timely manner, shipping sooner than later, and ultimately are responsible for getting the package to the slot holder.

Pat @ blowout checks everyone out prior to allowing their membership. Most newer people know, its a few days (or weeks) before your membership is approved. I try and get to the break postings within 48 hours, and most will get some type of pm from me asking questions. I check other forum ids, youtube/ustream etc, ebay, etc, but we all know if someone honestly wanted to any fraud info here would be hard to catch....why because in all honestly most of us are people behind a computer screen. If you really want to screw someone over, its not that hard to do. But ultimately to this point, its been me that's done any "moderating" within the group breaks. I've based any and/or all of my actions based on the rules that we currently have. I'm as much to blame as the individuals who have screwed up recently, but also why I opted to post this here as apparently the rules aren't strict enough and need changes to be made.

Being a part of the break that caused all this, I will say you/BO are not at fault for this. I have tried to be picky about what breaks I have entered and this all seemed on the up and up. It has opened the eyes of most and will hopefully put stricter rules in place so it cannot happen again.

[tehchamp]

Originally Posted by golferphil

I know one issue that I have seen recently is that the host doesn't want to send the $200 to lock the case/price in before everyone has paid. I certainly see the host's side in this. Right now the deposit on a pre-ordered case is not refundable, so if all of the sudden a bunch of people drop, they are on the hook for the non-refundable $200.

Maybe we should look at making an exception when the order is for a verified group break. In addition, you would make the first $200 (spread across all slots) an immediate payment to participate. Basically $200/number of slots.

You know, this seems like a really good idea to me. Factor this in as the startup cost to get the case, and then rest of the payment would be due at a certain date. That way the host isn't on the hook for $200, everybody would be liable for a few dollars.

Originally Posted by bigdaddyblue73

Why are you guys so adamant about not slipping the host a few bucks to say thank you? What is wrong with each participant throwing in $1 dollar in appreciation? I don't think anyone is suggesting a salary for hosts, but are you so cheap and unthankful you won't give the dude a buck to say "Thanks!"?

See, I think the host should get a tiny something from this. An extra $.50 to $1, is that really difficult for people to fork over? I don't know, it just seems all the stuff a host has to do, getting $10-$50(depending on the size of the group) back would be appreciated for their time.

[canuhandle23]

95percent of breaks arent bad. simple as that. A few are bad because the breaker had no experience and was trying to figure out a way to make 50 bucks. So he or she cutcorners on shipping, ordered elsewhere, or other various means of saving a buck

[npbaker1]

My only opinion on this as a person who has hosted a few breaks and only had 1 go bad on me (too many cards not enough time to sort and get shipped efficiently) is that no matter what safeguards you put in place if a guy wants to scam people he is going to figure out how to get around the rules.

Fish this is not your fault at all for approving as all you can do is make the assumption that he is getting the case at BO since its in the rules but you have no way of verifying that at the point in time you approve it.

BO not their fault either because as much as they can attempt to monitor it it still has to come down to buyer beware and buyers are responsible for making the final decision on whether to give the breaker their money.

[crazy8parlay]

The other thing I would like to see is in reference to people who sign up, then drop out when it's time to collect.

They should pay for their slot, and if they want to get out, they have to find a buyer prior to the random being held. Usually this isn't a problem because usually a break might have some reserves. If they can't find a buyer, then they have to keep their slot during the random and try to sell it afterwards. This gives them a chance to make money on it, or lost money on it, but also to hopefully break even. But it guarantees that the break doesn't get screwed up.

If the slot holder doesn't pay and refuses to, they should be suspended from breaks for a month, or whatever the forum considers fair.

[blake03svtf]

I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are made and how they can be enforced.
-The approval proccess from start to finish can not be on 1 persons sholders
-I can bet that most hosts DO at least make the $1 kickback you guys are talking about. Mainly from shipping prices.
-There has to be a way to verify case purchase from BO, maybe a small deposit or BO assigns an order number per break.
-I like the case price limit for new breaker
-DC is a must when shipping to slot holders and must be displayed in a post. All breaks I have been in have been without a DC and have always cost less to ship than estimated.
-All decisions must be voted on by slot holders with a mahority vote
-All slot holders must reply when cards recieved, and feedback left
-Everyone hosting should have a scanner, have them attach a copy of their drivers license when ordering the case or something. No different than being ID'd at a bar/club/gas station

Alot of other forums I visit, any FS items have a guidline to follow, amybe BO can get something made up as well

EX:

Price per slot:
Price per shipping:
Price for PP Fees:
Blowout order number:
Tracking information:
Host email:
ect
ect
ect

[Macken]

Originally Posted by blake03svtf

I'm looking forward to seeing what changes are made and how they can be enforced.
-The approval proccess from start to finish can not be on 1 persons sholders
-I can bet that most hosts DO at least make the $1 kickback you guys are talking about. Mainly from shipping prices.
-There has to be a way to verify case purchase from BO, maybe a small deposit or BO assigns an order number per break.
-I like the case price limit for new breaker
-DC is a must when shipping to slot holders and must be displayed in a post. All breaks I have been in have been without a DC and have always cost less to ship than estimated.
-All decisions must be voted on by slot holders with a mahority vote
-All slot holders must reply when cards recieved, and feedback left
-Everyone hosting should have a scanner, have them attach a copy of their drivers license when ordering the case or something. No different than being ID'd at a bar/club/gas station

Alot of other forums I visit, any FS items have a guidline to follow, amybe BO can get something made up as well

EX:

Price per slot:
Price per shipping:
Price for PP Fees:
Blowout order number:
Tracking information:
Host email:
ect
ect
ect

those are great ideas, i will implement them in my certified break thats filling now. What i did last break with my dc numbers i posted them all and then i subscribed to them all via email so i get an update whenever a new action occurs.

[blake03svtf]

I seen that, and honestly...it's the first one

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by iluvfish2

Bam. I do remember and very much remembering watching our first group break go up in flames (of sorts). Breaker lost his butt. I think he (Joel) still lost $$ even after we all pitched in some bucks. But it also opened our world to all sorts of interesting ideas.

To blame blowout on this isn't entirely fair. My actions are by far to blame and probably why my tone keeps going back and forth on my posts as I very much feel responsible and keep tossing around a few penalties of my own. I'm almost exclusively (99.999%) the one that does anything with the group breaks. Why because at the time I was the one who had done the most, and had a spreadsheet done up so that I could very easily check the math on a break and do my best to make sure a host wasn't over calculating..or under calculating. I'm the first to back a host when things are on the up and up. Hosts are responsible for keeping things organized (obtaining supplies, keeping track of payments, trades etc), busting the case in a timely manner, shipping sooner than later, and ultimately are responsible for getting the package to the slot holder.

Pat @ blowout checks everyone out prior to allowing their membership. Most newer people know, its a few days (or weeks) before your membership is approved. I try and get to the break postings within 48 hours, and most will get some type of pm from me asking questions. I check other forum ids, youtube/ustream etc, ebay, etc, but we all know if someone honestly wanted to any fraud info here would be hard to catch....why because in all honestly most of us are people behind a computer screen. If you really want to screw someone over, its not that hard to do. But ultimately to this point, its been me that's done any "moderating" within the group breaks. I've based any and/or all of my actions based on the rules that we currently have. I'm as much to blame as the individuals who have screwed up recently, but also why I opted to post this here as apparently the rules aren't strict enough and need changes to be made.

The Joel loser was because of the team auction aspect that was pretty much trial and error for the first break. Things went pretty smooth once the whole random slot thing started and the kinks got eliminated.

Don't be so hard on yourself Fishy, I'm sure it wasn't your call to open things up to members off the street so to speak with no established credibility around here hosting breaks. Pretty obvious based on all the changes in format and rules that things were getting out of hand so someone on BO's end should have stepped in and gave you a hand.

[vikingsordie]

On the topic of compensation.....Is hosting a group break a lot of work?? You bet it is. Especially if its a 63 hit draft break of a product that got delayed 2 months (see my PPP break). However, I host group breaks because I love the hobby and get some personal satisfaction from breaking cases and establishing a good reputation among my peer collectors. I do not want compensation. In fact, If I got any compensation I would put it right back into the break.

Second, SaintsFan brings up a good point about the group break "clubs". Im glad I got into the club he established because we have already built a trust and rapport among the members and we haven't even held our first break yet. I will begin to limit my group break involvment to our group and a select handful of other hosts that I trust.

I am all about giving people the benefit of a doubt and letting them proves themselves worthy of trust. But in the past month, my willingness to give anyone a chance has bit me in the rear twice now. I can handle losing the money from those breaks, but the idea that someone is KNOWINGLY taking advantage of other members just erks me the wrong way. As many pointed out, there should be a level of personal responsibility to research the host before joining...I am guilty of this in the past, but I won't be again.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by blake03svtf

I seen that, and honestly...it's the first one

yeah i dont see what so hard about being an honest man nowadays.