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Old 12-11-2013, 08:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is this a PSA 10? Don't think so...

I can't see this as a PSA 10. Edges lower bottom right. Centering on the back. Look at the current high bid. I can't believe this.
Maybe I'm wrong. What do you vintage guys think?RARE 1975 Topps 223 Robin Yount PSA 10 Gem MT Rookie RC HOF Brewers Pop 3 | eBay
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the centering on the back looks horrendous unless there is an experienced psa person to clarify, no way its a 10?
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There is no way that should be a 10. Must have been submitted by one of there "preferred submitters". PSA is known to give better grades to there top submitters.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The card does not look like a PSA 10 especially because of the frayed edges and the overall centering on the front and mostly on the back. The edges of the case itself looks like it shows signs of tampering but without a good photo of the edges it is hard to say. Even though the number comes up on the PSA site there is no way I would buy this card without looking at it closely. Sad to see there are lots of people bidding on the card.

Important Notes About the PSA Holder
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by itradeerrors View Post
There is no way that should be a 10. Must have been submitted by one of there "preferred submitters". PSA is known to give better grades to there top submitters.
PSA is about as trustworthy as a snake oil salesman...which is why I would never pay "extra" for a PSA graded card just because of the grade PSA gave it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Check out the bid history for a good laugh. I am no expert but it looks like there could be some serious shilling going on.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Since when does PSA check centering on the back?
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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following this thread to see what happens!
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I completely agree this is not a PSA 10. Mostly because of the yellow print smudge underneath the "B" in Brewers. However, I will say this, the centering on the back is graded differently than on the front of the card; PSA is more lenient on grading the centering on the back of the card on every card. Also, that isn't chipping on the edges, it is what most consider "hair" from the cutting process and actually shows how pack fresh it is. That is all...
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I agree with this not being a 10 because the PSA case has been cracked and resealed. This is becoming an ongoing problem with nice high end vintage and PSA cases. The case can be cleanly cracked and resealed, see the edges of the case, they are not clear any longer. This is a glued seal not heat.
FYI, people are buying one PSA 10, cracking case, placing a PSA 8 in and resealing, then sell the newly sealed fake PSA 10 for big bucks, resubmitting the actual PSA 10 card and getting a new PSA slab of a PSA 10 card, cracking it, cycle all over and over....
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Perhaps they need to start placing visual tamper-proof seals somewhere on the case.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I doubt very much people are regularly cracking out $5,000.00+ PSA graded cards solely for pulling a "switcheroo" in the hopes that the guaranteed money they already have in hand will be doubled once they resubmit the previously safely graded card to PSA a second time hoping to get that same 10 (never mind the buyer catching all this once they get the card in hand and returning the sold one). Aside from the criminality of it all, it would be utterly foolish and stupid since PSA almost never gives out 10's on vintage and you'd potentially be throwing thousands away in the hope for the same grade twice.

PSA has always been an irregular company when it comes to grading. Today's 10 is tomorrow's 9 or 8. Worse, their holders allow for damage to occur over time since the cards are not sleeved inside the holder. That is the only problem here. A lot of PSA holders look a little frosted without it having anything to do with tampering.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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$11,000! I think I need to convert mine. I think it looks just as good as that Yount.

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Old 12-13-2013, 01:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanes1111 View Post
the centering on the back looks horrendous unless there is an experienced psa person to clarify, no way its a 10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthoemke View Post
Since when does PSA check centering on the back?
From PSA's website:
Quote:
GEM-MT 10: Gem Mint
A PSA Gem Mint 10 card is a virtually perfect card. Attributes include four perfectly sharp corners, sharp focus and full original gloss. A PSA Gem Mint 10 card must be free of staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection, if it doesn't impair the overall appeal of the card. The image must be centered on the card within a tolerance not to exceed approximately 55/45 to 60/40 percent on the front, and 75/25 percent on the reverse.
Enlarging the reverse and counting pixels, the back of the Yount looks to be just barely better than 25/75... something along the lines of 27/73. So as far as the back goes, it would meet their minimum standard.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw9356 View Post
I agree with this not being a 10 because the PSA case has been cracked and resealed. This is becoming an ongoing problem with nice high end vintage and PSA cases. The case can be cleanly cracked and resealed, see the edges of the case, they are not clear any longer. This is a glued seal not heat. FYI, people are buying one PSA 10, cracking case, placing a PSA 8 in and resealing, then sell the newly sealed fake PSA 10 for big bucks, resubmitting the actual PSA 10 card and getting a new PSA slab of a PSA 10 card, cracking it, cycle all over and over....
We have a winner....and the shame is that PSA has known about this for years and chosen to do nothing about it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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We have a winner....and the shame is that PSA has known about this for years and chosen to do nothing about it.
Yes they did. They recently changed their slabs. They are not just like BGS in the sense the top lays over the bottom. Now can't split them down the middle.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:33 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The winner is the poster that posted PSA's back grading standards. This appears to be within those standards.

Still... we all know... you buy the card not the holder.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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PSA is about as trustworthy as a snake oil salesman...which is why I would never pay "extra" for a PSA graded card just because of the grade PSA gave it.
This

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Old 12-13-2013, 06:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Looks like a 10 to me. I'd like to entertained a bit more and hear you guys out on this "preferred submitter" ordeal.

That "fraying" you are so concerned about is from the factory and actually held in higher regards by some collectors. Back centering is within tolerance for a 10.

Keep in mind with VERY high quality scans cards can appear on your computer screen as if you were looking at them with a loupe in hand. Have you ever actually louped a 75 PSA 10? I know I have... I've owned and dealt with quite a few...

Is this card the strongest 10? Are there 9's more attractive? No and yes, but to think people get preferential treatment is a bit out there...
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfw13 View Post
PSA is about as trustworthy as a snake oil salesman...which is why I would never pay "extra" for a PSA graded card just because of the grade PSA gave it.
I'd trust them over Random Ebay/blowout/LCS/show seller every day of the week. BUT, I am not stupid enough to pay insane money for PSA 10 when PSA is nearly the exact same, nor will I buy sight unseen.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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but to think people get preferential treatment is a bit out there...
Not if you've been around the hobby for the past 10-15 years. It's pretty well known throughout the hobby that PSA gives preferential treatment to its highest volume submitters...
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:29 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Not all 10's are the same. Yes, by standards it can fall on very weak PSA 10 side. Like said before buy the card not the holder.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:01 AM   #23 (permalink)
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$15,600? Seriously?
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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$15,600? Seriously?
CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The card might look like crap, but PSA10! ZOMG $20,000!!!!!!
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